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I think part of the problem is we in the programming/engineering communities have a high notion of doing things right/ethics etc. However, in the real world, where money changes hands and fortunes are made it's the cheaters who get ahead/make things happen. Do you think most successful politicians, used car dealers, industry titans are not cheaters. Did Bill Gates or Steve Jobs ever cheat? (yes, all the time).

The question is, who do you want to hire as your salesperson when you're struggling and have to pay rent. Mr. Ethical (cs nerd) or Mr. Cutthroat (nigerian scammer/used car salesman)?




I agree that being unethical can give you an advantage over others in some cases, but ethics (or lack of) is not the issue here, it's the fact that these people are completely useless. Most of the formal education is pro forma anyway and won't give you enough knowledge to be useful in a production environment - if you choose to cheat at that level then you aren't Mr. Cutthroat you are Mr. Deadweight and your only hope of survival in any company is a dysfunctional corporate environment.


Well, I would say based on various cultures around the world being ethical is the praised method while the cheater is despised. You are correct that many cheaters do get ahead in life but, on the other hand, many of them get caught and are punished accordingly. Just because some get away with it doesn't support the notion it should be an accepted form of work habit.

And many of the people in the categories you mention are honest and are doing quite well thank you very much.

Did Jobs and Gates ever cheat? I know that they did. How do I know? Because they got caught and often paid whatever price was deemed appropriate at the time. But that does not mean that both their entire careers is based around cheating, which you are implying.

To answer your question; if it were my business I would choose the ethical salesperson over the scammer every time for various reasons. He's more unlikely to steal from me, he's more unlikely to steal from my customers, he's more unlikely to ruin my business, he's more unlikely to cause me to be sued, he's more unlikely to cause me to go to jail. If those answers aren't good enough for you, I wish you luck in the real world.

By the way, I think you are being a bit dishonest yourself comparing a used car salesman with a Nigerian criminal. I think you are confusing being aggressive with being a criminal.


To be clear, it is indeed your stance that both Bill Gates and Steve Jobs lacked any sort of legitimate skills, talent, or work ethic?


While I can't speak for the author of that comment (And for what it's worth...) it's a well known fact that Steve Jobs had Wozniak do his job at Atari for him on multiple occasions. (Including the famous breakout incident. LINK: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_jobs#Early_career)

I've read multiple times from material written about both of them that their skills were in management and vision, not necessarily code and electronics. Honestly though, to extrapolate no legitimate skills (Let alone talent or work ethic.) from that is a stretch at best.




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