Also at formal senior/project lead/management levels myself. I do not find what you are positing to be my reality, at all.
I don't think bullshitting leads to high productivity or task throughput. Anecdotally, I find the bullshitters are the ones holding the 20-40% of productive IC's back because of constant distractions, spec/scope socializing (and subsequent creep), and just general talking while others are trying to work. If there needs to be a meeting to work out spec I'd rather it be on the calendar where it's company sanctioned, has an agenda, and where we can formally gather action items to be delegated and assigned -- that last list of things does not happen with "bullshitting."
> At some point you'll get involved with a project that's so interesting you'll never really stop thinking about it, and then your idea of what someone looks like when they're "working" will change.
I've been very involved and interested in my work and this has not happened to me yet. People socializing in adhoc 1:1 conversations is where the "good ol' boys" comes from, and it has typically been incredibly damaging to my clients, specs, and timelines. My idea of people working is people traditionally working, adhering to the SDLC, and ensuring technical communications are not private.
In my anecdotal experience, "bullshitting" is a negative thing. I'd rather not be a "bullshitter," and I hope those around me don't use such language to describe me -- especially at a professional level.
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Just to reiterate:
"Bullshitting" != "where a lot of the work gets done." "Bullshitting" is a negative thing.
And, being incredibly invested into a project has not yet changed my opinion on this. I find this comment makes assumptions of future me with the "at some point" language. Using a hypothetical regarding someone else's future self isn't ideal when arguing a point. It feels condescending in a "you just don't know yet" sorta way.
This isn't someone coming up to your desk, this is more like two people from different departments rubber ducking each other on the walk to get coffee. It's all pre-spec work as you'd put it, but a bit of a continual review as well. 'Shop talk' doesn't really cover the scope.
> I find this comment makes assumptions of future me with the "at some point" language. Using a hypothetical regarding someone else's future self isn't ideal when arguing a point. It feels condescending in a "you just don't know yet" sorta way.
Yeah I'm working on a certain tone in my writing and haven't quite nailed shifts in PoV e.g. transitioning from you/you to you/one in a single sentence. Appreciate the feedback.
I don't think bullshitting leads to high productivity or task throughput. Anecdotally, I find the bullshitters are the ones holding the 20-40% of productive IC's back because of constant distractions, spec/scope socializing (and subsequent creep), and just general talking while others are trying to work. If there needs to be a meeting to work out spec I'd rather it be on the calendar where it's company sanctioned, has an agenda, and where we can formally gather action items to be delegated and assigned -- that last list of things does not happen with "bullshitting."
> At some point you'll get involved with a project that's so interesting you'll never really stop thinking about it, and then your idea of what someone looks like when they're "working" will change.
I've been very involved and interested in my work and this has not happened to me yet. People socializing in adhoc 1:1 conversations is where the "good ol' boys" comes from, and it has typically been incredibly damaging to my clients, specs, and timelines. My idea of people working is people traditionally working, adhering to the SDLC, and ensuring technical communications are not private.
In my anecdotal experience, "bullshitting" is a negative thing. I'd rather not be a "bullshitter," and I hope those around me don't use such language to describe me -- especially at a professional level.
---
Just to reiterate:
"Bullshitting" != "where a lot of the work gets done." "Bullshitting" is a negative thing.
And, being incredibly invested into a project has not yet changed my opinion on this. I find this comment makes assumptions of future me with the "at some point" language. Using a hypothetical regarding someone else's future self isn't ideal when arguing a point. It feels condescending in a "you just don't know yet" sorta way.