Boy that BTC rug pull really hurt. I'm still totally reeling from the XMR rug pu...

nradov · on March 14, 2023

Principles are irrelevant in this space. The only thing that matters is actual laws enforced by people with guns.

reedjosh · on March 14, 2023

BTC and Monero were built to resist laws made by people with guns.

There were other attempts at digital currency before BTC, but they were all taken down by people with guns.

That's kinda the whole point. That's why BTC uses energy. It's a means of resistance to people with guns.

kergonath · on March 15, 2023

> BTC and Monero were built to resist laws made by people with guns.

Not at all. Otherwise they’d be truly anonymous. People with guns know how to parse the blockchain and how to find you if they need.

reedjosh · on March 16, 2023

Maybe BTC but XMR was built with anonymity in mind to begin with.

And as for BTC, the lightning network will add a level of anonymity as well.

Further, even if people with guns can track you, at least the people with guns can print more BTC or XMR to buy still more guns with.

this_user · on March 14, 2023

> That's why BTC uses energy. It's a means of resistance to people with guns.

That logic makes about as much sense as using crypto currencies in general.

reedjosh · on March 14, 2023

You're not making any real argument here, so I can't exactly refute it.

Proof of Work is a means of preventing any one actor from controlling bitcoin. Proof of Work is energy intensive, but the currency exists in a government resistant manner without the use of guns because of Proof of Work.

kergonath · on March 15, 2023

> Proof of Work is a means of preventing any one actor from controlling bitcoin.

No. It does not prevent majority attacks.

It has also been very effective as a mean to enforce an oligarchy of those who have the hardware and made billions, compared to those who did not and who were at the mercy of fluctuations. It makes sense from a perverse right-wing libertarian point of view, but it has nothing to do with democratisation or taking the power away from the government.

reedjosh · on March 16, 2023

Nobody has the majority. That's also the point.

> those who have the hardware and made billions, compared to those who did not and who were at the mercy of fluctuations.

I don't know what you could even mean. Having hardware just means you can mine BTC. Miners still deal with price fluctuations, and in no way have they been able to control or print BTC.

> ...it has nothing to do with democratisation or taking the power away from the government.

If the government couldn't take limitless loans from the Fed which creates debt from nothing -- a fancy way of saying print money -- if the government couldn't print money it would have to tax for it's expenditure and would be naturally constrained in it's power.

I honestly can't understand any of your positions and can only believe you're incredibly uniformed about the reality of money, power, and the genisis of and technology behind many crypto currencies.

ElectricalUnion · on March 14, 2023

> BTC and Monero were built to resist laws made by people with guns.

Good thing they weren't built to resist laws made by people with 5$ wrenches /s

https://xkcd.com/538/

reedjosh · on March 14, 2023

Yes, it's a funny joke and all, but really it is made to resist that as well. And what I mean by that is that it's a currency you can use without a bank and is not controllable by those with wrenches.

psychlops · on March 14, 2023

A Hobbesian theory that people in power are happy that you believe.

nradov · on March 14, 2023

Is there an alternative "theory" that actually works in the real world outside of idealist manifestos?

psychlops · on March 15, 2023

Effectively every transaction done today is done without guns or laws. I've certainly haven't had to threaten anyone with litigation to purchase a cup of coffee. To believe that there is chaos without both is a sad myth.