We get that advice. We know that advice. We give that advice to one another.
What “women” typically object to is when the first response from someone after reporting an assault/harassment/attempted assault is to be immediately questioned, “what were you wearing?” “Did you lead him on?” “What time of night was it?” “You were drunk, weren’t you.”
That’s what pisses us off. The immediate move to blame the victim as if they asked for it (and in some parts of the world, rape is still framed that way. She asked for it.) and thus deserve this to happen.
I can assure you that every woman I have ever met over the age of 21 (I don’t know any girls who are in high school now, sorry) has been told her whole life to be careful and take precautions when meeting someone, especially someone from off the internet.
“Text us when you get there.” “Be sure to watch your drink.” “Meet in public first, just to be safe.” “If If you don’t text me by “X,” I’m going to blow up your phone.” “Be sure to take an Uber if you’re going home after X o’clock.” These are things we say to EACH OTHER. These are things our mother’s taught us.
We don’t get mad when reminded to be safe. We get mad when the instinct is to blame us for our own assaults. (And it isn’t just men that blame women. Women can blame women too. And women can blame themselves, even when they did absolutely nothing wrong.)
When I tell my wife about the time I get robbed when in Mexico, the first kind of questions are things like what time of night and did you go to the slums etc. If the answers are yes I'm called a dumbass and told not to do it again. [Yes I have been robbed or attempted robbed multiple times including at gunpoint and no I'm not offended by these questions]
I'm not saying being robbed is anywhere near as bad as getting sexually harassed or raped but I never thought the line of questioning was really unreasonable. Even if I've heard the advice being told it again by someone I know can be helpful because even if I'm told it constantly I still need to be reminded not to be a dumbass and go out at night dressing like I'm well off or whatever because someone will rob me and I have a bad memory with that kind of stuff.
Granted most people in general including women are probably less a dumbass about these things than I am.
> I'm not saying being robbed is anywhere near as bad as getting sexually harassed or raped but I never thought the line of questioning was really unreasonable.
Then it is probably a good idea to listen instead of putting up a defensive front so that you can understand why these situations are different and why women in general feel the way they do.
>I'm not saying being robbed is anywhere near as bad as getting sexually harassed or raped but I never thought the line of questioning was really unreasonable. Even if I've heard the advice being told it again by someone I know can be helpful because even if I'm told it constantly I still need to be reminded not to be a dumbass and go out at night dressing like I'm well off or whatever because someone will rob me and I have a bad memory with that kind of stuff.
You still shouldn't be blamed for being robbed. You're right that depending on the area and the time of night, crime can be more likely (although plenty of crime can take place in broad daylight) and being aware of that in advance makes sense. But that still doesn't make the crime your fault and you still weren't asking for it. And assigning blame or calling you a dumbass for getting robbed still isn't OK.
But being robbed, even at gunpoint, is different than being sexually assaulted or raped. And most rapes don't happen in bad areas late at night by random strangers. Most rapes are people the victim knows. That's what makes questions about "what you were wearing" and "did you lead him on" even more offensive.
> the first kind of questions are things like what time of night and did you go to the slums etc. If the answers are yes I'm called a dumbass and told not to do it again
Your wife can imply you are to blame because as far as you two are concerned the robbers are force of nature. It's good for preserving personal sanity, but not when this logic is applied in public or by authorities and can influence public opinion or policy. Are they force of nature? Or perhaps something we can or even should deal with? If you want robbers to go away, normalizing them is the worst thing you could do.
You don't need to give that advice to women. They've already gotten it, almost certainly from other women.
Given how women are often treated by men, I totally understand why they would chafe at being given this sort of advice from a man. I would, too, if I were in their shoes.
Apparently there are a lot of men who haven't received this advice from anyone, though, even though it always applied to them as well.
I'm not exactly sure what you're saying here, because "provenance" literally means "where it came from", so by definition it changes according to who is giving the advice.
I assume that you mean something more like "how good the advice is". And you're right. But that's not the point.
The point is that most women are constantly being told how they should or should not be by men, usually in a way that is treating them as if they were children. So when they are unnecessarily instructed by men about how to be safer in world where it's mostly men that makes it dangerous for them, I totally understand why that might be irritating.
No matter what the message is, who gives it is often the primary thing that determines how it will be received.
I am saying that it is ad-hominem fallacy to say that advice (aka arguments) are any less valid based on their provenance, or as you put it “where it came from” (and of course, who it came from).
