Hacker News new | past | comments | ask | show | jobs | submit login

Having large amounts of unified memory is useful for training large models, but there are two problems with using Apple Silicon for model training:

1. Apple doesn't provide public interfaces to the ANE or the AMX modules, making it difficult to fully leverage the hardware, even from PyTorch's MPS runtime or Apple's "Tensorflow for macOS" package

2. Even if we could fully leverage the onboard hardware, even the M1 Ultra isn't going to outpace top-of-the-line consumer-grade Nvidia GPUs (3090Ti/4090) because it doesn't have the compute.

The upcoming Mac Pro is rumored to be preserving the configurability of a workstation [1]. If that's the case, then there's a (slim) chance we might see Apple Silicon GPUs in the future, which would then potentially make it possible to build an Apple Silicon Machine that could compete with an Nvidia workstation.

At the end of the day, Nvidia is winning the software war with CUDA. There are far, far more resources which enable software developers to write compute intensive code which runs on Nvidia hardware than any other GPU compute ecosystem out there.

Apple's Metal API, Intel's SYCL, and AMD's ROCm/HIP platform are closing the gap each year, but their success in the ML space is dependent upon how many people they can peel away from the Nvidia Hegemony.

1:https://www.bloomberg.com/news/newsletters/2022-12-18/when-w...




This basically seems to line up with what another tech community (outside of AI / ML) seem to agree on: that Apple hardware is not that great for 3D modeling or animation work. Their M1 and M2 chips rank terribly on the open-source Blender benchmark: https://opendata.blender.org/

Despite Apple engineers contributing hardware support to Blender: https://9to5mac.com/2022/03/09/blender-3-1-update-adds-metal...

So looks like NVidia (and AMD to some extent) are winning the 3D usage war as well for now.


Specifically, a Macbook Air M2 ranks more or less like a NVidia GTX 970 of 2014.

But... the GTX by itself has a 145W TDP, whereas the whole laptop has a TDP of 20W!

This is super impressive imho, but of course not in the raw power department.


They're pretty darn good for laptop GPUs.

This isn't really an Apple specific problem - GPUs with low power budgets are never going to beat GPUs intended to permanently run off of wall power.

(I know there's stuff like the Mac Studio and iMac, but those are effectively still just laptop guts in a (compact) desktop form factor rather than a system designed from the ground up for high performance workstation type use)

I'd love to see a dedicated PCIe GPU developed by Apple with their knowledge from designing the m1/m2, but it's not really their style.


The 4090 is able to draw 450 watts. Current apple silicon are all used on laptops, which cannot possibly sustain or cool that much power. It might change when they make a cooling-optimized desktop chip though.




Consider applying for YC's Fall 2025 batch! Applications are open till Aug 4

Guidelines | FAQ | Lists | API | Security | Legal | Apply to YC | Contact

Search: