Given this is HN, I'm just mildly curious about how people who knew Musk 15-20 years ago view him now. I mean, I know this is tangential, but pg had an essay talking about what a bad idea it was that Musk demanded Windows over Linux when Musk ran PayPal - I just got the sense that pg was never a fan.
Do folks view this as "this is an ambitious, hardworking genius whose lack of social constraints due to his success is making him run off the rails, mentally" or is it a case of "Musk has always been more asshole than genius, it's just his 'marketing veneer' that is starting to falter."
I agree, I've always viewed Musk with a sense of awe and amazement ("How can someone have the time and energy to run THREE major companies??"), now I just want him to STFU because what comes out of his mouth/tweet feed is such incessant verbal diarrhea.
I think the success really got to him. As a (cured) ex Elon fanboy who used to like him way before he was widely known to a non-nerd community, I distinctively remember this interview around the pre-Falcon 9 times with him which is like
Interviewer: Neil Armstrong says he doesn‘t want a private company like SpaceX to launch humans to tue moon because it‘s unsafe. What do you think about that?
Humble Elon, literally crying: I… I just wish he could come out here and see what we are doing.
That‘s the picture I carried with me for a long time, together with some really smart remarks about climate change on panels that were way ahead of their time.
These days, it‘s really all an ego shitshow, memes and YOLo. He definitely changed a LOT the past few years.
The impression I got from this article by his first wife was that his growing wealth and power, as well as being surrounded by similarly wealthy powerful people, sort of formed a feedback loop that just intensified personality traits that he already possessed.
When it was Tesla and the beginning of SpaceX, I was like "Oh, that's cool". I didn't care much more than the surface level and didn't care to look deeper. Since then, he's exposed much more of himself and have caused others to look way deeper.
And it's looking more and more like the doesn't so much run three major companies as owns three major companies.
My wife, ever the empathetic, reminds me constantly that Elon is not neurotypical. He has aspergers, and that can explain some of his bluntness, some of his work-life demands, etc.
I don't want to generalize or stereotype ASD in general, but it does produce tangible differences in how people relate to the world.
Aspergers does not explains his behavior. It does not explain grandiosity, oversensitivity, lying, egoism and so on. Also, Musk is pretty good at negotiating, manipulating and can be very charming, people with asperger are usually opposite.
So, that diagnosis is some minor influence somewhere, but does not explains the rest.
I think elon is such a Rorschach blot that people see the evils of capitalism, woes of mental health, drug use, virtuousness of free market ideals, entrepreneurial godhood, corruption of wealth and political power, blah blah, depending on their priors.
Things people say about him reveal more about the speaker than the subject, I mean.
> There’s a common idea that surrounds autistic people, especially those with above-average intellectual ability. This idea states that we have no empathy, that we’re robots who will never understand relationships, that we’re incapable of acting human. TV Tropes calls it Disability as an Excuse for Jerkassery, and notes that Asperger’s is a favorite excuse. The Autistic Jerk has become such an ingrained idea, many people expect and assume that we are going to be assholes. But I’m here to tell you: the autistic jerk is just a jerk who happens to be autistic.
I think you're reading into my comment a bit too much. I never intended to over-generalize or stereotype anyone with ASD, and didn't use any negative words re: Elon or aspergers.
- "Musk has refiled his SF-86 security form, which requires a federal employee or contractor seeking a clearance to acknowledge any illegal drug use over the previous seven years, according to the official, who asked not to be identified. SpaceX has contracts to launch satellites for the U.S. military."
- "Musk’s “adjudication” review by the Defense Security Service continues with no decision yet, the U.S. official said. Typically during an adjudication, a person keeps his or her security clearance but loses access to information classified as secret, according to the official. If the drug use involves minor issues or doesn’t appear to contain any serious security concerns, the unit reviewing the case could just close it and update Musk’s record."
the argument about illegal drugs is, in part, that someone using them can be blackmailed, and may be a total junkie willing to sell out secrets for a 8 ball. He isn't hanging out on skidrow begging for change to get his next heroin fix.
I don't think either of those apply with Musk, because he is a pot afficianado and openly pushing it, and pro-legalization. Some states have legalized because they want those juicy tax revenues, There is a significant part of the populace that realizes pot has been overcriminalized particularly for those with medical issues. While there are risks and dangers associated with all of these (see Alex Berenson), I don't see an adjudication authority seeing Musk as a security risk.
Dollars talk, and saving the federal government hundreds of millions with cheaper launches probably influences this some. But, the feds prolly see the long view and recognize Musk is likely to push the Americans into the infinity cash supplies of space tourism, space freight, deep space exporation, space mining, and the national prestige of first humans to Mars. Why would they want to impair that over a bit of weed?
I had a knee jerk reaction to this but taking the high road. I sincerely don't believe that the venn diagram of people with security clearance doesn't overlap at all with "those that use illegal drugs"
I would guess that there's a culture of delusion surrounding this wherein because "it's the rules" they are actually followed. You know because rules are rules. The world, especially those like the Elons of the world, don't care to follow them as diligently as perhaps a command and control military / public service style structure demands. I'd even be surprised if even in the federal government those with security clearance were completely sober and free of the drugs considered illegal under US law.
You know Elon is gonna do what he wants to do. For better (electric cars, reusable rockets) or for worse (open his twitter feed any day of the week).
I suspect compliance for federal workers is very high, pardon the pun. Your average Joe fed is not going to be treated the same if they are caught using drugs vs elon being caught using drugs.
Some states allow from prescriptions, but it's still Federally illegal - and of course the Federal government doesn't care about state law when making decisions about security classifications.
> the Federal government doesn't care about state law when making decisions about security classifications.
I suspect this is less true than you think; since federal prosecution is blocked by law for state-legal use, one of the major security clearance reasons for it to be an issue (the leverage that the criminal behavior might give others over you because of prosecution risk) is very much affected by state law.
I never realized until the comments today that the reason you can't be on even state-legal prescribed drugs is because you become more open to blackmail and exploitation or prosecution risk.
But wouldn't debt of any kind, or regular motivations such as greed, family (maybe a relative got into drugs/trouble) be the same or even worse?
It just seems like a left-over relic from the 'reefer madness' days.
A big part of my early distrust for police stems from the lies they told me in D.A.R.E. 'class'. Marijuana will turn you into a drug-fueled criminal, it eats your brain cells like this spray paint on a Styrofoam cup, and they never come back, this is your brain (egg), this is your brain on 'drugs' (but it's an anti-weed commercial) and the egg starts frying in a pan. They spent years trying to convince the very young and very old that weed==narcotics.
As I've gotten older I've realized almost everyone has some issue- addiction, drug use, over-indulgence of whatever, just seems some are hell bent on hiding it and pretending they don't.
Admittedly, I'm pretty far from that world, but I follow a bunch of NatSec folks on Twitter and Bradley Moss and Mark Zaid are specialist NatSec lawyers who represent many people denied clearances;
> since federal prosecution is blocked by law for state-legal use
Source for that? One would think the supremacy clause overrides any idea of state law.
> This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in Pursuance thereof; and all Treaties made, or which shall be made, under the Authority of the United States, shall be the supreme Law of the Land; and the Judges in every State shall be bound thereby, any thing in the Constitution or Laws of any State to the Contrary notwithstanding.
Seems pretty cut and dry to me that if its federally illegal its still illegal within the states. The only question is if the federal government really cares to enforce the law in states where a large population of the state is openly breaking the federal laws.
I think people are just upset because he is rich I noticed the amount of hatred for him seems to be directly correlated with how much money he has. If he didn't have money people would just see him as a memey nerd.
Ah, yes- behold all of the comments in this thread that have no critiques of Musk other than $!
And incidentally, yes- many poor people despise the rich, just as most rich people despise the poor.
Mamy are the critiques of Musk here, nowhere did I read it was because he's hoarding money.
Edit to add- rich people change laws and construction to benefit them, they can displace and ruin the lives of the poor with a thought. They have all the power and most of the money. They live in gated communities far out of sight of the working class. They literally have an embarrassment of riches while people die around them. There is a very good reason the affluent only live amongst each other in fancy gated communities.
People don't hate the rich because they are rich, it's because of the impact they have on the lives of those without means.
Nice, I love when people put words in my mouth, especially when I've been good enough to state my argument in good faith.
This very comment thread has people saying, among other things, that Musk oversteps on Twitter, bring up the SEC charges, bring up the twitter purchase, bring up his freedom of speech absolution, it goes on for days.
So you are either blind incapable of reading, or are a troll. Since you shoved words in my mouth and are still parroting 'bcuz rich', I'm going with the latter.
I never said you said anything? How is making baseless claims good faith?
> Musk oversteps on Twitter, bring up the SEC charges, bring up the twitter purchase, bring up his freedom of speech absolution
So people are upset with what Musk spends his riches on?
> They literally have an embarrassment of riches while people die around them.
Im willing to bet we are both living in a rich country with ruining water, electricity and plenty of food while little slave kids make our shoes. We are all embarrassingly rich in the context of the real world but I don't think the people upset with Musk are upset about this. I think they just see some one with more than them and get upset and then they use it as a scapegoat that only the richest man in the world has the power to free those little kids making your shoes, and that the rest of us are powerless to do anything but go along with it and keep buying the shoes made with child slavery.
I read your edit wrong. Turns out I was the one who couldn't read. I apologize sincerely.
To your points, stop inserting words into my mouth. Having those issues with musk is in no way an issue with his money. I happen to have both by the way, so this is a possibility as well.
I don't hate him for being rich, nor do the others whose salient points you so succinctly boiled down incorrectly again to 'bcuz rich'.
He has had many issues, and continues to do so. You can pretend it's simply because of his money but for myself I can at least assure you, that is the very least of the issues I have with Musk.
Pointing to poor people and saying there are poorer people in 3rd world countries is a poor argument.
I reiterate Musk has tons of money, sure. And that much wealth consolidation is an issue, to be sure. But that has no bearing on the many, many issues all over this thread people have with him.
Edit to add- your ninja edit and the reason I read your initial response wrong is because you removed the line about him being rich, and added right-wing- not cool.
Sorry Im not putting words in your mouth you just aren't reading me with as much good faith as you think.
You said:
> Edit to add- your ninja edit and the reason I read your initial response wrong is because you removed the line about him being rich, and added right-wing- not cool.
I said:
> The only criticism I have seen here of musk beside money is that hes right wing, not really a criticism.
He has money and is right wing, people who have money are rich. I never edited anything.
You haven't read anything I wrote you just make claims you are unwilling to substantiate and then when I quote you, you accuse me of putting words in your mouth.
Do folks view this as "this is an ambitious, hardworking genius whose lack of social constraints due to his success is making him run off the rails, mentally" or is it a case of "Musk has always been more asshole than genius, it's just his 'marketing veneer' that is starting to falter."
I agree, I've always viewed Musk with a sense of awe and amazement ("How can someone have the time and energy to run THREE major companies??"), now I just want him to STFU because what comes out of his mouth/tweet feed is such incessant verbal diarrhea.