If a friend gets a great job or starts to live a healthy life you don't feel great for them? I don't believe that puts me in the minority of people, not a chance.
> If a friend gets a great job or starts to live a healthy life you don't feel great for them?
We can feel happy (for them) and unsatisfied (with ourselves) at the same time. Multiply that by N, and well, that's a recipe for disaster (at least for me). I know, I know, we shall not compare ourselves with others, but hey, I'm not a machine, I have my imperfections which I am polishing from time to time, but in the meanwhile social media makes everything worse in average (for me).
I travel more than average so I am happy seeing friends going on trips. It's rare that their trip looks better than what I've just done or have planned next. But I could absolutely see how someone might spectate a feed full of holidays and feel from the aggregate like everyone else is constantly travelling, while they grind away at work.
Meanwhile my family's barely travelled the past three years due to Covid concerns, tighter budgets (wife's income got severely impacted from the pandemic for a while, while this year we had to unexpectedly pay a good vacation's worth of taxes), and having to use PTO for other unrelated things. Most I've done is a few weekend trips to neighboring states.
Since this is about the effect of social media on mood, I'll chime in to say that it's the opposite for me.
Seeing people conspicuously consume extravagant leisure travel – and the associated resources – brings to mind global warming and how few people actually give a damn about it in any meaningful way.
It also reminds me of what brazen liars many people are. In cases where I've known the people posting Facebook/Insta content about their amazing trips, in about half of those, the reality is that the trip was far less than amazing than their posts would suggest.
As an example, one woman I know took her family across the Pacific to Thailand on a two-week vacation. By their accounts, they had a pretty rotten time, even considering moving their return date forward. But, the Facebook narrative was glowing. Four years later, the woman's Facebook cover photo is of a Thai Buddhist temple from that trip. (She's not a Buddhist. The photo is purely for aesthetics and social signaling.)
It seems to me that this kind of behavior feeds into a loop that encourages other people to consume finite resources and then post about their "amazing" (though often non-amazing) trips. And so the cycle continues.
And that really gets me down. I don't go on Facebook very often.
One could be “happy”* for a friend and also feel shitty about themself.
“Damn. Matthew has changed jobs 3 times in the past 5 years already, each time to a better paying job. Look at you. You’re still stuck in this shitty job because you suck.”
This is literally the kind of thought I have had in the past.
[*] Are you “happy” in a polite way? Or are you genuinely happy?
Genuinely happy, of course! I want to see my friends and family succeed in life and enjoy it. I don't feel like a lesser person in any way, I feel proud of them.
that was all OP was referring too and it's well documented. Honestly you come off as dishonest in this convo as it's quiet a normal emotion to feel and it's not negative per say, it can lead to negative actions but can also push people to do better.
"It doesn't matter if the slight is real or not, its the perception of the person that matters"
-- Jimmy Hoffa
I've never felt envy towards my friends and family. No, never. I find it bizarre that you do.
I never said I don't feel envy. You jumped to conclusions based on a very little sentence I wrote.
I currently have a very severe skin condition, and I live in a country with 'free' healthcare. I am envious that some people get medical treatment for it and can live a normal life again and some people do not (such as myself).
I don't give a shit if you think I'm dishonest, you do not know me.
Why? Feeling envious is just human nature. Sure, one can argue that in our current society that kind of feeling is "bad", and we should "fix it". I tend to agree, but that you find it bizarre, it's bizarre to me :D
Oh well, maybe you are a machine (based on your nickname), so yeah, machines do not have imperfections (just kidding).
> It's definitely not "human nature" to feel envy towards your friends and family.
Let me tell you how I had envied my cousin when he had a Super Famicom (a.k.a. SNES in North America) with a stash of great games and I didn't (not even the base machine), when I was a kid. He never wronged me. In fact, we were really good buddies when we lived next to each other more than 20 years ago, but I still envied.
Does feeling envy make someone an asshole in your eyes? Do you believe that people who feel envy can choose to not feel it? If they can't choose not to feel it, are they doomed to be an asshole (by your definition) for the rest of their lives, barring some change outside of their control?
To me, simply feeling envy (or any negative emotion) doesn't really say anything about the person. Actively stoking negative emotions or acting on them moves the needle in the direction of asshole, though.
Suppose you tell a friend about a job you're applying to, they think it sounds nice, so they apply too and they get the job and you don't. You're not jealous of that?
Or maybe your brother and you have a crush on the same woman. He asks her out and they start dating. You aren't jealous.
Or just suppose you always wanted something at home, a hot tub, a big screen tv, a walk-in closet, a home office, whatever, and you find out your friend has the thing - you'd be envious right?
It seems like you're confusing being envious of someone as a negative feeling towards them, which is why you're getting caught up on the friends and family aspect. It shouldn't matter if it's friends and family - they are often the people you know the most about so you'll find out if they do/have something you want. If you let your envy turn to anger and contempt, that's the negative part, but you don't have to - that's just having a healthy perspective and self-control
- I've been in this situation and I was joyed for my mate, I ended up getting a better offer from elsewhere so it worked out anyway. He's still there, now as a lead architect
- This would absolutely make me jealous, but I've never been in that situation
- No, this is the weirdest one. I have friends who own huge houses (multiple!) and sports cars. I'm happy for their success, I find it genuinely mental that you would be (are? surely you have more successful friends) jealous because your mate has a better car than you. Jesus.
And I'm not "stuck" in the friends and family bit, that's been the whole context of the thread.
If you feel truly happy about someone else but at the same time not let it reflect on you, then I would say you are minority. The first part of my sentence is achievable and is genuinely positive , at least in a way. The second part - not letting it reflect on you - is IMO most people struggle.
Take it or leave it, Metta meditation is pretty squarely aimed at that. I’ve had only the tiniest bits of success, but trying a book/video/app is a ton cheaper+easier than therapy!
Indeed, it's even possible to be genuinely happy for someone but still feel inferiority and discouragement when trying to compare aspects of one's own life with others.
It's great that not everyone struggles with that, but different people struggle with different emotions. Maybe we can all agree that whatever their nature and whatever we call them is beside the point, (I think) that social media engagement optimizations have notoriously exploited these effects as they relate to our attention and habits, taking many people on an unwanted emotional roller-coaster ride for arguably unhealthy amounts of time.
I had that feeling. It pushed me to move to something better recently after stagnating for years.
It’s an ambivalent feeling. I was definitely stressed for months thinking about how much worse my life is as a consequence of comparing myself to someone else. But at the same time, I’ve lifted myself up to a higher standard since that stress turned into motivation. That friend who I felt envious of is also happy for my success, and I’m also happy for his.
I don't think you're in the minority either. We experience joy from the joy of those around us.
I think the disagreement here mostly stems from a different definition of "friend". For most ppl, the friends they see on their FB/IG feed aren't actually "friends"... but more like acquaintances. Often times they're people that you've only met a few times and haven't seen in many years.
Though, even with close friends, sometimes one can't help but compare. And since social media only highlight the highlights, you'll naturally feel bad when comparisons happen.
Seems that with apps like BeReal/Locket taking off in the GenZ market this is starting to shift a little.
But even when it comes to acquaintances, when I hear about their great new job or vacation, I don't feel envious or bad. I compare myself to other people, yes, and of course I'd like to have some of the things I see, but not to the point that I would feel bad. Does every story about someone being successful make you feel bad? I doubt it, as that is not my personal experience at all.
You keep grouping envy with inherently negative mindsets. Sometimes envy is just envy. As in, "damn, John is married with kids and a great job, and I'm still single and scraping by, I gotta get my shit together". I am not upset that John has these things, I am happy my friend John is happy. It also served as a reminder of what I want for myself, and thus, my envy is a motivator.
This is not envy in my opinion. You are not upset, you are happy John is happy, where is the envy exactly? You recognizing that he has something you don't?
An actual friend then sure, but most people I know have like 500+ “friends” so I think people are less likely to have that reaction to everyone in the timeline.
A lot of this depends on how one's life is going. It is easy and natural to be genuinely happy for others when you are satisfied with your own life. But if I became unemployed and my friend got into Google then yeah...happiness level will be limited. There is a sound evolutionary explanation on why that is so.
This sure plays a big role, I agree. Maybe I would feel some envy in that example, but I would also not let it consume me, and still feel happy for my friend at the same time.
Social status and the satisfaction (or lack thereof) derived from it are relative. This has been studied and hammered on again and again, not to mention the entirety of human history (and tons of lucrative rackets) attest to it.
And being "the lord of your destiny" is already not applicable to most people, except in an abstract, meaningless sense that a person can always decide for themselves. That doesn't mean they can wish reality away. (E.g. "Yeah, I have $200K in student debt, no job prospects after looking for 10 months, and my spouse got sick, but I can do whatever I decide").
If these people think they're the only ones with problems and other people's lives are problem-free, well that's the issue. Not even the most accomplished person has a smooth ride.
That's kind of the whole point: social media presents you with a highlight of the smooth ride scenarios in people's lives (and even those, made to appear even fancier with all kinds of tricks and cutting out of "behind the scenes" context).
And rationally being aware of this doesn't help either: you still get the raw first experience at an emotional level.
>But why would I? It's not like they took something from me. I am the lord of my destiny.
Envy. You can be genuinely happy for them, but then be sad that your life isn't going as well. I think this compounded by the idea that a lot of people don't feel like the lords of their destiny, more leaves in a river unable to fight the currents.
Which of course adds to the stress of "Why can't I be better and more like [friend]?". Which may or may not lead to productive self-reflection (more likely not in my experience)
>And how is it in any way different from the same people telling me this stuff at a pub? I don't think social media has anything to do with this.
Scale, I would imagine. If it was one or two friends I think it's easier to rationalise, but when you see friends-of-friends and celebrities "living their best life", every day, while you struggle to keep your head above water, it takes a toll.
But does it exacerbate the problem more than other ways of social interaction?
As opposed to a real life social interaction, I can simply hit Unfollow on Facebook (so we stay Friends but I don't see your posts unless I look for them)...
Maybe social media gives you a much more concentrated feed of things that can trigger your inferiority complex, compared to normal, real-life social interactions?
And if you have to resort to unfollowing, you’re basically agreeing that it’s a problem.
I don't see how that proves anything specific to social media, I'm "unfollowing" people IRL all the time, it's not like I want to hear everything someone has to say, especially not if it makes me sad.
I just can't see the reason why this is about social media, and not about personal relations in general. Someone makes me sad IRL - I don't listen to them. Someone makes me sad on social media - well I don't listen to them. Where's the difference?
I can understand the scale argument, but I can't see why it's a problem after I've unfollowed the problematic accounts.
At one point in my life, I unfollowed literally every FB friend I had - because I wanted to follow my groups but my friends' posts were too political and this kind of talk had a bad effect on me. I can't see why people just don't do that when social media makes them sad.
I don't know how much of this is reality, but to me the argument is as follows:
Let's say seeing a certain type of post makes someone sad, and that this causes that person's mind to wander, slowing or stopping their feed-scrolling for a moment now and then when they see such content. This means they're now stopped on the feed at a potentially vulnerable moment. There is now a monetary incentive for the feed curation algorithm to continue doling out the kind of posts that make the user sad, as well as placing targeted advertisements right with them - ideally ones that exploit the negative emotion in some way.
I realize not everyone reacts the same way. Maybe they speed up their scrolling instead. The kinds of behavior that social media feed curation algorithms track and act upon is opaque, and I think that lack of transparency and accountability can easily have unfortunate consequences.
Personally I'm happy when good things are happening for family, friends and other people, but depending on my mood it can also trigger feelings of FOMO/anxiety (why isn't that happening for me, what am I missing, etc.). My guess is depending on the person and their current state that falling into a pattern of focussing on the latter rather then the former is easier when using social media. Which can then be a bit of a vicious cycle because cutting yourself off from social media may also mean you miss events that you could have participated in
Yeah I’m with you, I think the response itself might be an indicator of a certain personality type or if negative then a clue of unhealthy thinking habits.
