Counterpoint - in the UK, I can turn up at a hospital anytime and they'll look after me. The place is generally tidy, amenities are good, emergency services efficient, roads good etc. (I appreciate there's always exceptions to this). I can earn no or very little money and still be (mostly) taken care of by the state. My taxes cover this, and also cover those that can't pay. As such, life is (I expect) much better for those with less than it was a hundred years ago and society is probably happier and more stable as a whole.
I don't know if we have it completely correct and there's definitely a balancing act. There's also growing inequality. But what's the right amount of tax to pay? Not referencing you directly, but I often see crypto threads that call for the government to "keep their hands of my money" - and I wonder if these people would still say the same thing when their bins weren't emptied, or the roads were so full of potholes the lambo couldn't drive on them etc etc.
> in the UK, I can turn up at a hospital anytime and they'll look after me.
Where the hell do you live in the UK because that’s certainly not true in Birmingham. I moved to Germany and got orthopaedics, MRI, and physio in the space of 3 weeks. Would have taken months in the UK during COVID. Have you actually tried using the NHS?
> I can earn no or very little money and still be (mostly) taken care of by the state.
Also not true, the conservative government are very aggressive about taking away benefits
I'm from Portugal, afaik we get taxed a lot more than you. For reference, the minimum wage is ~700€.
See the prices:
- We pay a lot more for cars, for example a 20000€ car in Germany costs 25000-30000€ in Portugal.
After acquiring a car, depending on the engine capacity you pay more taxes (if you get a after-2010 car). For example, I drive a BMW 316d from 2017 and I pay 250€ anually to the state just to drive it. Our roads are garbage filled with holes and bad quality pavement. Also, a litter of diesel costs 2€, taxes for fuel are ~50%.
- Our wages are highly taxed as well, atleast 34% go to the social security and to the state each month. If you get 800€ per month and you boss decides to raise you by 100€, half of the money goes to the state.
- Food and services are highly taxed as well. Most stuff pays 23% of taxes for no freaking reason.
- Electricity and other services are also highly taxed as well. We pay 23% for electricity in our bill and we also have to pay for RTP (state national television...) from that bill. Water bill, only 5% of my bill is actually for what I've used in water, water is basically undrinkable but I pay 95% just for taxes.
- Rent, stocks and other stuff are all taxed to 28%. Meaning one month of rent and 28% goes directly to the state instead of the landlord. He also has to pay an yearly tax to keep his propriety. This tax depends on the size and a lot of factors but an apartment may pay 400€ yearly.
- A company pays around 4000 different taxes yearly, and the most ridiculous tax is that the government taxes the companies for profit they have yet to make. Companies in 2022 are already paying 2023 taxes.
And list could go on.
All this taxation for crappy healthcare system (IT'S NOT FREE...), crappy roads, crappy public services, crappy policing (Portugal it's not a safe country like many foreigners agree, try needing the police help and you'll see...) and of course, crappy military that is way short on NATO demands.
Point being: Taxing is basically theft, no matter the country you are in, you will never get the benefits of your taxes because corrupt governments, debt, etc...
I totally see your sentiment about Portugal but not sure you can then confidently arrive at the conclusion “no matter the country you’re in”. When something is dysfunctional in one country that doesn’t suggest it’s the same in every other country? I’m sure Scandinavian countries also have their issues but folks living there might generally dislike their high taxation less than in Southern Europe.
I am by no means suggesting we have it right, but widening the gap between have an have not and then saying "we have, we're ok - you look after yourself" isn't exactly a recipe for stability.
I don't know if we have it completely correct and there's definitely a balancing act. There's also growing inequality. But what's the right amount of tax to pay? Not referencing you directly, but I often see crypto threads that call for the government to "keep their hands of my money" - and I wonder if these people would still say the same thing when their bins weren't emptied, or the roads were so full of potholes the lambo couldn't drive on them etc etc.