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Paper straws were based on a fake study (twitter.com/pmarca)
19 points by memish on April 13, 2022 | hide | past | favorite | 19 comments



This isn't exactly true. He overshot with his estimate (he guessed 500M/day, but it's closer to 170-390M/day), but the rest of his campaign wasn't "fake".

Like straw bans or not, the wrong number wasn't far off and probably didn't really matter: https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/19/business/plastic-straws-b...


I feel like we're in a mode now of more and more ridiculous herd behaviors that start either as good intentions or as deliberate trolling, but then get this kind of absurd global takeup that is absent any real thought. There were always fads but now they sweep the country or the world and with much more righteous fervor behind them than ever. Y2K was maybe an early example, but now every day there is some sweeping thing that all right thinking people must get behind and not question, that inevitably will not be so black and white once the hype wears off.

I use about two straws a year, I don't care if they switch to paper, but it's indicative of this casual madness that regularly sweeps through society now


Probably something to do with newer generations being mostly atheist and needing to replace the God-shaped hole left in them with other ideological stances, this time graciously provided by political movements. Controversies like plastic straws are a thousand different filioques, except in a political package.


What exactly is about that god-shaped hole that people need filling?

Some parts I can understand, like the social need filled by communal rituals. But I suspect it is something deeper. I suspect it is related to a need to distinguish ingroup and outgroup.


This.


Y2K may seem like much-a-do about nothing, yet much effort went into mitigating potential pitfalls before the fateful day.


Finalstraw.co - Suck responsibly!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vP4xUgzNLik&t=124s


Its a bit weird perhaps ... but in India I noticed nobody used straws when out eating in the early nineties. I don't know what they do now. And they did not enjoy their drinks or food less.

Do we really need straws?


I noticed there’s no link or reply to actually explain where his assertion comes from.


It's explained in the Reason article he linked, but there's hardly anything in there suggesting the data to be fake. It was derived from surveying straw manufacturers; dismissing the results based entirely on who conducted the survey (as seems to be the implication of the Reason article and the explication of the tweet) is a blatant ad hominem fallacy.


We don't need straws?


Actually some do. Some individuals I know personally were campaigning to ban disposable straws and it came out that there are some disabilities where straws can be helpful or necessary at places like restaurants. Metal works but you have to clean them and/or carry them and they can be dangerous, especially for people with coordination problems. Plastic, silicone, or paper are usually better options.

Sometimes disposable plastic straws are really the safest best option. Paper probably is underutilized and plastic overutilized, but I think the straw controversy is a bit overplayed.


Yeah ofc I know (kids are the obvious one), but those seem like cases where bring-your-own-straw makes sense?


Single use plastics utensils and straws are literally needless garbage in 99% of cases. They so easy to avoid needing, but because people are used to it they act like their right to life and liberty is being taken away. This actually makes it harder for the 1% so percent that actually have a hard time without them because it requires broad stroke regulations when people are so recalcitrant over minor changes.


I’m fine with making changes, but paper straws are just a bad product. They have one job to do, and they don’t do it. If you’re going to get rid of plastic straws, at least replace them with something that accomplishes the goal.


I think some paper straw designs are bad, especially recent ones created solely to capitalize on this. However, I've used some that were stiffened with wax (not good for hot drinks but stronger when chilled - great for milkshakes), and some that were rectangular that bent like a gutter drain that were pretty pleasant. I don't think it's beyond possibility to create thoughtful, functional paper straws.

In general, I'd rather use anything besides plastic and I don't really use straws, so the existence of bad straws doesn't affect me. I own a few metal ones that probably took more energy to create than all of the straws I've used in the past two decades, but whatever.


> I don't think it's beyond possibility to create thoughtful, functional paper straws.

I agree, it's probably solvable—but the vast majority of paper straws that are I've received, aren't that. If they can get a good paper straw, I'd be fine with it.


I recently bought a small set of metal ones and they are not bad at all. The downside is that they need cleaning.


>This actually makes it harder for the 1% so percent that actually have a hard time without them

I don't understand what you're trying to say.

People who want to police straw usage are not at fault for making life difficult for the 1% who really need straws...because?

Who decides that they are less important than stopping the 99% from using straws?




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