Absolutely. But I also question the criteria of the hypercompetition, and the judges' valuation of the signals. Volunteer work in a Guatemalan day care center may indicate altruism and awareness, right up the moment when it becomes an aid, or a requirement, of Harvard admission. Likewise the school paper. Maybe the insistence on being "well-rounded" pushes kids outside a purely academic focus, and gets them exposed to things they might otherwise miss. But how much will a kid get from an experience without an interior interest? "Gotta go check the 'well-rounded' box."
Likewise I wonder about the curriculum they have to hit. If they are doing so much homework, why aren't they more numerate, why aren't they more familiar with the underpinnings of our literature and history? Why isn't Harvard conducting interviews in foreign languages?
We've made a grueling admissions process that measures compliance with a particular norm of social and political values, and tries to be "academically rigourous" without suggesting that particular topics are especially important or essential.
And why, exactly, is Harvard so much more important than Brown, and Brown than Wesleyan? The education available at these cannot be so different as the quality of the social network established. Now networks are extraordinarily important, but are the Harvard grads _learning_ that much more after college? or is the difference in their positioning for various status competitions?
It's hardly surprising that this process perpetuates the same status structure that determines its rewards and criteria. Those rewards and criteria are stated in vague but emphatic terms, which can only be judged subjectively. Is it any wonder that the process seems crazy? or that makes suspicious the very notion of "excellence" supposedly at its core?
Absolutely. But I also question the criteria of the hypercompetition, and the judges' valuation of the signals. Volunteer work in a Guatemalan day care center may indicate altruism and awareness, right up the moment when it becomes an aid, or a requirement, of Harvard admission. Likewise the school paper. Maybe the insistence on being "well-rounded" pushes kids outside a purely academic focus, and gets them exposed to things they might otherwise miss. But how much will a kid get from an experience without an interior interest? "Gotta go check the 'well-rounded' box."
But given there are a fixed number of slots at a place that a lot of people want to attend (which may not be the case forever, with online education) how else do you propose they judge the students?
The idea they have is that they don't just want the 4.0/1600 SAT students. They want students who have interests and passions outside of the class. The person who wins the Westinghouse competition, or the IMO gold medalist, or the 17 year old NY Times best seller, or the kid who toured with the Marsalis' on sax.
Sure all these things could be application padding w/o passion purely to get into Harvard, but how do you distinguish? How do you select for passion/competence, but not look at their actual accomplishments? What's a better way to do this?
Not sure. For a start, I submit that the Ivy League inundation by 4.0 / 1600 students signals that high schools aren't grading hard enough. A more informative grade scale might clarify the competition. And I bet these 4.0s are hiding some academic posers, kids who maybe did a lot of work but are graded heavily on the fuss their parents would make over an A-.
If the schools are guessing less about which 4.0 signifies more ability, they'd have more time for serious attention to other parts of the portfolio.
I've sometimes toyed with the idea of starting a university which gives no degree, in fact won't even confirm or deny a person's past attendance to any other institutions, in order to weed out those who are there for the degree.
In the US we have community colleges, which offer a range of "adult ed" courses outside the degree program. Many universities also have Continuing/Night non-degree programs.
Yeah, unfortunately those institutions tend to be for people who want academic "appetizers", or a degree. They're not for serious intellectual pursuit.
My suggestion is using a modified version of sortition. Grade the students, then add some white noise to their final grading. You deliberately make the process less precise, hoping that this will discourage students from gaming the system too hard (which will more accurately get the intrinsically motivated ones in).
Even better, if you keep track of the random noise you added, you can do all sorts of interesting statistical experiments. Introduce a few kids who didn't get top scores into an MBA program, and see what factors later predict success.
There is an interesting trend at top schools where the marginal applicants from less prestigious prep-schools tend to do better. The better your parents help you game the system the lower your average intelligence after admission.
My younger sister went though this process recently. She was Valedictorian, had 5's on something like 12 AP tests, ran her own business, and had enough artistic talent that she was accepted into the top Graphics Art School in the country with an average admissions age of ~20. Now, she was considering a business degree and could have easily gotten a full ride at an Ivy, but the students where 'stressed and boring' so she gave up on that idea really quickly.
Which is an odd trap, where not only are poeple gaming the system to get in, you drive away the types of students you actually want because your student is so focused on checking things off a some list they never really learn to think for themselves.
PS: Continue down this path for long enough and we are going to end up with Japan's higher education system.
Likewise I wonder about the curriculum they have to hit. If they are doing so much homework, why aren't they more numerate, why aren't they more familiar with the underpinnings of our literature and history? Why isn't Harvard conducting interviews in foreign languages?
We've made a grueling admissions process that measures compliance with a particular norm of social and political values, and tries to be "academically rigourous" without suggesting that particular topics are especially important or essential.
And why, exactly, is Harvard so much more important than Brown, and Brown than Wesleyan? The education available at these cannot be so different as the quality of the social network established. Now networks are extraordinarily important, but are the Harvard grads _learning_ that much more after college? or is the difference in their positioning for various status competitions?
It's hardly surprising that this process perpetuates the same status structure that determines its rewards and criteria. Those rewards and criteria are stated in vague but emphatic terms, which can only be judged subjectively. Is it any wonder that the process seems crazy? or that makes suspicious the very notion of "excellence" supposedly at its core?