Ask HN: How do I pay our Russian devs?

[quack01]

Operating a company with a decent amount of remote contractors in Russia. We are worried about being able to pay them. What are the best options? We are currently thinking about having them open foreign bank accounts if they don't have one already.

Where's the best place for them to get a foreign bank account?

What's the best method for them getting the money back into Russia so they can use it?

[duxup]

This is something you really want to ask a lawyer who knows your details.

You don’t want to get this one wrong. Consequences in your country (and for your business in other countries) could be severe.

[throwaway290]

As of now, it appears to be illegal for US businesses to transact with any resident (does not matter if they are peaceful or pro-Ukraine) of any of the annexed or separatist-claimed territories in Ukraine, so you might want to check that ASAP.

If Russia is disconnected from Swift but is still legal to do business with, you could find a way that does not involve Swift. If Russia as a whole falls under the same restriction (consider the implications), then paying your devs will become illegal and any advice on that would be advice on how to violate the law. Consult lawyer.

[throwaway290 → throwaway290]

Upwork also currently writes that they stopped working with people in affected areas, even though the Executive Order does not seem to be that wide (it lists particular banks, not all of them, as well as specific organizations and individuals). I suspect that they may be erring on the side of caution and stopping everything first while they do the ultimately correct thing (consulting their lawyers).

These developments affect me personally, but I can understand the intent. In fact, I would understand the potential blocking of Russia more so than restricting people in occupied areas, who may well be victims for the most part. (Luckily, though, I don't have a family to support, unlike some others.)

[0xBDB]

Russia is still on SWIFT (as of today) and still legal to do business with for the most part. Check with your lawyer, but unless your contractors are sanctioned entities or contracting through one, I would think you pay them however you've been paying them. Whether it might be prudent and ethical to start moving your business elsewhere is another question.

EDIT: If their Russian banks being sanctioned is the problem, I suppose you might have to use crypto. This is likely to draw attention and I would really be consulting your lawyer at that point. I realize that just firing everybody overnight may not be a practical solution if there is any other resort.

[mytailorisrich]

At the moment there's no technical or legal problem, as far as I know.

Later it will depend on the nature of any new sanctions. If they create a practical problem (e.g. Russia dropped from SWIFT) then crypto may provide a workaround. If they create a legal ban on dealing with Russia then I'm afraid you will have to sever all links with your Russian contractors.

But as others have pointed out you want to seek legal advice because breaching international sanctions, especially against Russia at the moment, is a serious criminal offense.

Maybe also a good idea to talk to your bank about what it their position on customers making transfers to Russia.

[bedast]

You don't. This is part of war. You move them out of Russia or your fire them.

[Flankk]

Criminal penalties for violating sanctions range up to 10 years in prison, $1 million in corporate fines, and $250,000 in individual fines. Any other questions?

[MrDisposable → Flankk]

Payments to Russian entities and persons that aren't explicitly sanctioned are still legal. Banks may decide to decline transfers though, or simply terminate accounts that do such transfers on their own discretion – even if they don't have a legal reason to do that.

[pier25]

If they can open a Payoneer account this will give them a US and EU account. Not sure how they will get the money to Russia though.

[axiosgunnar]

You don't.

[lucasyvas → axiosgunnar]

This is my take as well. They then put pressure on their government to take steps that would reverse this.

Not an ideal situation for anyone.

[ussrlongbow]

Swift, I am helping a US company to settle RU contractors relationships, DM if help needed.

[0xdeadb00f]

Bitcoin, Monero?

[rvz]

> What's the best method for them getting the money back into Russia so they can use it?

Cryptocurrencies (not Bitcoin) are your only option.

[MrDisposable → rvz]

Can a US company legally buy and transfer crypto?

[trillic → MrDisposable]

Yes, but KYC, which is this case likely makes the transfer illegal.

[0xdeadb00f → trillic]

So use Monero then. From the exchange's wallet -> your personal software wallet -> hardware wallet.

Then use the HW wallet to send coins to Russians, making sure they do something similar (moving the Monero around to a few wallets) on their end to try and cover some tracks.

Should be sufficient.

[kadoban → 0xdeadb00f]

This is everything that's wrong with crypto; it only even attempts to solve the technical problem and ignores or worsens the legal, social and political issues.

[0xdeadb00f → kadoban]

OP is trying to pay Russian employees. I figured they already knew that in the current climate it would be illegal.

[ushakov]

TransferWise?