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Mozilla Webmaker (foundation.mozilla.org)
56 points by throwoutway on Feb 19, 2022 | hide | past | favorite | 26 comments



I think the more interesting thing there is the 'Artifacts' home page [0] and the fact they are archiving these past experiments. Despite its faults its good that Mozilla is cataloging these, they could easily be left to just disappear from existence.

0: https://foundation.mozilla.org/en/artifacts/


Another abandoned project from back when Mozilla still liked doing projects.


Mozilla still likes doing projects: https://foundation.mozilla.org/en/blog/


Ok, it's a bit of an exaggeration, they definitely still do projects, but there's seems to be a real shift in focus now.

Most of what they do now is stripped down privacy focused versions of existing stuff rather than innovation like they had in the FlyWeb days.


Trying to not get destroyed by Google does wonders to your focus I would imagine


Looks like both Core and Android versions were abandoned back in 2016. Oddly enough, the web version was abandoned in 2018. Still, all versions seem to be React based.


The sole change to the website in 2018 was changing the Twitter URL in the footer away from a dead account. Not really abandoned any later, just someone sent a cleanup to a deprecated site.


Remembered this more as a Mozilla initiative promoting 'maker' activities and community calls, hackathons here and there etc.

And stuff revolving not around the logo see in that archived page but this Thimble one https://blog.mozilla.org/en/mozilla/introducing_thimble/

Got a large Thimble webmaker sticker in the mail once randomly and I wasn't even sure why/how hehe


for the android app, precondition is a login, so I'm unable to review it. here are some headlines to get an idea: http://mozilla.github.io/webmaker-curriculum/

What is used nowadays in kids (8 - 12) web literacy courses?


What is the simplest, user-friendly, open-source, web maker these days?


I know the answer to two of the categories, not to the open source https://elementor.com/


The native Gutenberg[1] editor in WordPress (GPLv2) is a few years old now, very capable and will likely make Elementor and similar offerings redundant soon.

[1] https://wordpress.org/gutenberg/


> Elementor is a free software released under the GPLv3 license


Perhaps a web3 version web3maker could be implemented?


I hope not. Mozilla are having a hard time of it lately but I would really worry that they've lost their way if they touch the steaming pile of crypto scamware shit that is web3.


So-called "web3" is still early-stage and amorphously defined, born of the tensions between web1 (a user-sovereign Commons, but lacking identity and value transfer) and Web 2.0 (payments and identity, at the cost of surveillance, enclosure of social Commons, and Metcalfe-monopoly Platform Capitalism).

I understand the pushback against the "crypto grift", and as a critique of Actually Existing Crypto-Anarchist Political Economy, I completely agree. But the race for the future is happening with or without us. We can either cede the territory to the bad economics (and worse ethics) of Austrian-school neo-goldbugs; or, we can get involved and leverage the tools towards democratic principles, human values, regenerative ecology, and genuine disruption of unproductive rent-seeking.

I'd view anything pitching itself as an investment with extreme suspicion. (And by all means: carbon-tax or fully outlaw "Proof of Work" mining.) But there are countless projects that are truly decentralized, not profit-oriented, and community-first/tech-second: Panvala, Breadchain, CommonsStack, Green Pill Party, Basis Project, /r/CryptoLeftists, lots more. By all means, be skeptical, call out moral hazards and perverse incentives, that's all to the good. But let's not ignore the huge opportunity to disintermediate private Capital (old and new), and in the spirit of copyleft/FOSS, to "lock open" our digital and economic infrastructure.


I genuinely think that this post was written by something like opengpt-3.


Dunning-Kruger much? :P Lots of academic fields look like gibberish to a lay audience. (I suspect GPT could pass a Turing test, of showing real and fake academic papers to those outside the relevant disciplines.)


Verbosity is not substance.

‘If you can't explain it to a six year old, you don't understand it yourself’


Crypto has been around for 13 years and apparently "it's still early".

Imagine if the consumer web had been restricted to out-of-the-box HTML4 + CSS2 from 1999 to 2010.


I think it's a fair criticism, which is why I don't have a high degree of confidence in Bitcoin itself, or the political-economy narrative of "crypto-anarchism". The fact that there's still not a crypto eBay is damning. (Though it's not clear where the right point of comparison is: do we measure from TBL's WWW, or ARPAnet? The earliest chains are more transport layer than application layer.)

That said, the kinds of innovation I'm talking about are still young: DAOs have only existed since 2016, and many of the non-speculative projects I mentioned (mutual aid, mutual credit) are only a couple years old.

Maybe the critics are right, and "crypto" is a flash in the pan unable to deliver on its promises, and destined to be a cautionary tale, like tulips or Beanie Babies. But it might be an expensive question to get wrong: if cryptographic mechanisms for distributed coordination are able to outcompete firms (per Coase), or states (the Global South moreso than the West), that "basin of attraction" could be non-trivial to disrupt, just as it's now non-trivial to defeat the chicken-and-egg problem of making a new eBay. If any aspect of the future is to be based on cryptographic coordination, I'd rather the tech (and culture) be truly democratic and open, not reliant upon the neo-oligarchs of BTC. Refusing to engage in the space at all is ceding the territory.


When you say unproductive rent-seeking? Who are you calling out here and what makes it unproductive? rent collecting is a perfectly reasonable way to capture value.


Rent-seeking is not exactly uncontroversial amongst economists (though some claim it only occurs through state intervention, which is a view I don't share). The most egregious examples are fee-simple ground rents (Adam Smith called a landlord's right to rents a "monopoly price... apportioned to what the farmer can afford to pay"); and many forms of patents (eg, "discovering" a certain curvature of rounded corners, or a "one-click buy button").

There's certainly an argument that some forms of rent are net-productive ways to create markets for labor exchange, which would be difficult to capture otherwise, so I'm not arguing against rent as a broad category: only that some rents are unearned, and therefore a net drag on real wealth creation.


Why would web3 not have mobile sites like web[?] does? The source lives in decentralized version control. This is as web3 as it could get without tacking some kind of pointless blockchain grift onto it.


I’m not sure how web semantic would save the project.


What things would need to be implemented in order for it to be a web3maker?




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