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Who the hell has the authority to issue “orders” to a civilian? What is this, medieval Europe?

To make it worse, he paid to be there. If they didn’t want him in the seat, they shouldn’t have sold him a ticket.

He already paid, already received the ticket, and already had his ass in the seat.



Jurisdictions can issue evacuation orders and curfews. Police can in many cases remove you for trespassing.

The United incident was a total disaster for United, they were incompetent and doubled down on that incompetence because of policies driven by their bottom line. The “police” that removed the trespasser were no trained and were also incompetent.

None of that changes the fact that if the captain of the airline thinks it’s a safety problem he can remove the passenger.


At least in the U.S. anyone is allowed to order others off their own property...


This is not technically correct. I am pretty sure that you are not allowed to immediately order someone off your property if they have been living there for a while.


Do contracts mean nothing to you?


The contract says they can order you off. The entire argument revolves around invalidating the contract due to other laws.


Airport security and the police are explicitly granted with that authority and can issue those orders.

Why would you call this medieval?


You seem deeply confused. A lot of people have the right to issue orders to a civilian under various circumstances.


I'm deeply confused aswell. Do you mind elaborating on who that is?


But not under these circumstances. Was that not clear? If you’re a model of clarity, I’d rather be confused.


You're still wrong. Go check federal law on airline passengers. Don't worry, I'll wait.

And no, btw, pretending to be confused isn't convincing.


> Who the hell has the authority to issue “orders” to a civilian?

The property owner of the property he is occupying against the owner’s wishes.

> What is this, medieval Europe?

Capitalism isn't the same thing as feudalism, though both give preeminence to property rights (in capitalism, the important ones are more likely to be marketable rather than fixed to predefined systems of inheritance.)


[flagged]


> The terms of purchasing the ticket includes your agreement that you might get bumped.

'Bumping' is the colloquial term for 'involuntary denied boarding'. Bumping does not apply in this case, because the passenger in question was already boarded, and therefore could not be denied his seat, as he was not acting abusively.

But don't take my word for it, this is directly from the US Department of Transportation:

> Can airlines involuntarily bump me after I have boarded the flight?

> Generally, no. If you have met the following conditions, airlines are not allowed to deny you permission to board, or remove you from the flight if you have already boarded the flight: > You have checked-in for your flight before the check-in deadline set by the airlines; and > A gate agent has accepted your paper boarding pass or electronically scanned your boarding pass and let you know that you may proceed to board. > However, airlines may deny boarding or remove you from a flight even after accepting your boarding pass and informing you that you may proceed to board if the denial or removal is due to a safety, security, or health risk, or due to a behavior that is considered obscene, disruptive, or otherwise unlawful.

https://www.transportation.gov/individuals/aviation-consumer...


My mistake, I forgot that detail. My other two points, however, are still valid, even if the airlines request broke regulations.


> My other two points, however, are still valid.

No, if you read the DOT website I linked to, you'll see your second point is not valid either.

The DOT explicitly states airlines are not allowed to deny you permission to board, or remove you from the flight if.... If you have already boarded the plan, or had your ticket scanned, and are not being unruly, airlines are literally not allowed to deplane you.


Trespass law is not within DOTs regulatory purview. It is possible for a request from an airline to be legal under one set of laws but illegal under another. Airports are both under federal and state law. Which may conflict at times.


How could trespassing laws possibly apply? It’s not the airlines property just their vehicle parked on the government’s property


By that logic a stranger could get into my car if it is parked in the street, since it is a private vehicle parked on the governments property. This seems counterintuitive.


But the vehicle is not parked in a public space it's parked on private property that is owned by the government. If someone is in a vehicle on someones property then it's the property owner not the vehicle owner were trespassing laws apply to.

The Airline is as much a guest in an airport as the passenger is.


This is not true. In the US, trespass in a vehicle is often criminalized regardless of where that vehicle sits.


Vehicles are typically included as property under most trespass laws


airlines may remove you from a flight if the removal is due to a behavior that is considered disruptive


…or if the weather changes and they need to reduce weight. On a CRJ this is quite common (which was the type of plane this incident occurred).


He paid for a seat reservation, not the plane. You have no right to disobey orders in the same way you don’t have a right to fly the plane. There is no ambiguity here.


> He paid for a seat reservation, not the plane.

He paid for the flight, was checked in, allowed into the plane and didn't provide any reason himself for being thrown out. The people who escalated the situation were the airline staff and airport staff. Huge difference.




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