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I don't think the e-waste is economically relevant. The environmental cost of Chia is much higher than the cost of cleaning up its e-waste. It's also much lower than than the cost would be if Chia were protected purely by energy.

To be more specific, the dominant cost is the opportunity cost of disk space. Producing and using a drive can't be accounted for as "e-waste", otherwise you'd be forced to claim that drive efficiency doesn't matter because more efficient drives produce just as much e-waste.




It literally wears out SSDs. Are you running a chia node?

I wasn’t trying to be funny.

chia nodes regularly wears out crappy consumer-grade SSDs, and it’s cheaper to just burn through them than buy more resilient drives.


Yes you're 100% correct about that, but the cost of properly disposing of a failed drive (e-waste) is insignificant for Chia.

The real cost is from buying the drives, which is not e-waste. You'd have to convince me that there are enough unrecoverable nonrenewables in disk drives for this to be a significant "environmental" cost, and I think it clearly is not.


If you accept that one can produce SSDs sustainably, how is that any different from sustainably produced electricity?


(people use HDDs for chia, not SSDs, but that's not too important)

I don't care about what will be true, I care about what is true now. If electricity were completely environmentally friendly then the conversation would be moot, as PoW would itself be fine.

But that's not the state we're in. Most electricity is not sustainable.

To me the relevant question is, are HDDs _currently_ produced with fewer environmentally harmful externalities than electricity? I strongly believe the answer is yes. Energy is a small part of the inputs to produce an HDD. You'd have to convince me that on average, the non-energy inputs to HDDs have a larger proportion of environmentally negative externalities than energy itself, or that the energy used for HDDs is somehow less green on average than the energy used for PoW.


(small nit: yes, Chia does use HDDs, but plotting is mostly done on SSDs, afaik? and yes, not that important)

I believe mining today in the US is 70-75% sustainable, which is pretty good, if true. (I haven't done a deep dive on this to confirm, seems a bit high).

Personally, I find the notions of reducing energy usage in general quite terrifying.

As we go up the Kardashev scale, our energy needs will keep rising exponentially, and for human civilization to pass the Great Filter we have no other choice but move and move quickly, but of course not too quickly to commit suicide.

Not sure what's the best way to achieve it, but it is very hard to believe we can become a multiplanetary spacefaring civilization on a combination of hydro dams, windmills and solar panels.

My hope is that Bitcoin can stimulate development of clean nuclear, or if we get lucky, maybe even aneutronic fusion.




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