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well, the negotiation will take some finesse, and might not have a happy ending.

if both sides were happy with the prior terms and had the same expectations -- i.e. you didn't really understand or investigate your compensation compared to market value, and/or they deliberately lowballed you -- they're probably not going to be thrilled about revising things right now if they're also stressed out with the crunch and also not too excited about paying more for the same labor (or having other stressed out employees grumble for more comp, or wondering if you'll threaten to leave again in the future, etc.)

so even though you may be justified in asking for more, it might be tough to get it given the constraints on their end. if, though, both sides expected at the outset you'd be working a normal 40 hr week and you're working 2x that, then the negotiation would probably be easier.

the good news is you'd have no problem snatching up another (probably cooler) gig -- just look at the yc job postings :)



Well, the situation is this:

I was the first employee, and I came on board when the first round of angel investing was made. There are currently 2 other employees, and 2 co-founders. One is business-oriented, one technical. I work probably a few hours less than the co-founder (per week).

The tech co-founder seems to be somewhat slow to pushing updates, as he gets sidetracked micro-managing the 3 team members (who are all graduates, except myself). E-mails that come from investors are usually ignored, for the fear that they will "distract the dev team." I'm not sure if that's normal either.

I'm new to joining startups, and don't understand investment and equity as well. Obviously, I need to starting learning more ;) That's one disadvantage of being as young as I am and joining a startup (I'm not old enough to buy a drink, let's put it that way). I'm glad I got some feedback on this though..


0.2% seems really low for a first employee. I have no equity with my current employer (employee #10 or so), but my boss also doesn't expect more than 8 hours and pays a competitive salary. My other offer was about 0.01% as employee #22. In a previous startup, I had about 0.1% as employee #13, but that was straight out of high school (the two recent ones have been as a graduate of a top college). I've heard that 2.5% or so is typical for the first employee, and it decreases exponentially from there.

I'd give some thought to what you want to get out of a startup. If you're just looking for experience (as I am, mostly), the equity isn't too important, and the real criteria should be whether you're learning stuff and are involved in decisions. If you want to get rich, be aware that 0.2% of a typical $40M exit is only $80K - not chump change, but you can't look at it as any more than a nice bonus. It will take a $500M exit to make you a million dollars, which basically means you either need a really hot product (Facebook/MySpace/YouTube) or you need to be able to go public. Salary also factors in - if you're being underpaid by $20K relative to market rates, your stock payout would get eaten up in 4 years.

If you're in it for money, I would suggest trying to renegotiate. Losing the first employee would be a tragedy for most startups, so they'd probably be willing to go up to 1-2% equity if they're smart. They may not like it, but part of being a successful entrepreneur is doing stuff you don't like for the good of your company.

If they aren't smart or their ego gets in the way, you want to leave now anyways, because they aren't going anywhere. Also, try to have another job offer in hand when you renegotiate - it helps your bargaining power significantly.

The micro-managing is a bit of a red-flag. It happens a lot with technical cofounders. My current boss has a bad case of it. I had a bad case with it the first time I managed a software project (at a volunteer nonprofit), and letting go and actually trusting the other developers to do things right was one of the hardest things I had to do on that project. The usual result is that the business stagnates and doesn't go anywhere, then folds when the employees all leave because the business isn't going anywhere.


I too wonder how founders who own 30-40% of a company (who want to work 80 hours a week) can expect the same of an employee who owns only .5% or less.


Wow, nice response. Really appreciate it (as well as many other people who've followed up on this).

I'm extremely experienced, so that's not really what I'm here to get. I pick languages up fairly quickly, and I've been doing sole proprietor/freelance work for years on end now. I've been told many times (by clients, professors, and employers) that considering my age, my skill set is remarkably impressive.

I'm very young though, so I have had very little startup experience (and very little "corporate" experience). I don't want to get too far into details, simply because this is the internet, but I've taken everything mentioned here into account and will plan to do something.


"They may not like it, but part of being a successful entrepreneur is doing stuff you don't like for the good of your company."

Very well said!




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