I can't believe they're doubling down on the notch. The absolute best thing I can say about the iPhone notch is: I don't hate it enough to switch to Android. It's by far the thing that bothers me the most about the design. It's ugly and lacking harmony with the UI.
However one feels about extra usable screen space in iDevices, doesn't seem like as big a deal on the Mac. macOS has and has always had the core menu bar taking up the entire top of the screen. And even with a significant number of user menubar add-ons, the middle is often blank space since the menus from the left and add-ons from the right don't meet. Eyeballing the resolutions (about 1.54:1) it looks like this is pure gain, they took previous dead space and turned it into screen then stuck the general fixed UI element in there, with the camera taking up what is commonly blank space. Seems pretty function-driving-form as it should be.
Also, particularly given the new improved local dimming, for any content that wants a plain rectangle (video, games) seems like just blacking the menu bar area will work well. Macs aren't rotating devices either, so the notch is always going to be in the same semi-dead-space spot and easy to work around. That's quite different than iOS devices (even the iPad). And even with Apple's regrettable increasing of barriers to modifiability, on macOS there remains plenty of freedom to do UX adjustments and for developers to do whatever they want outside of Apple's rules. IIRC for example Apple forbid just "hiding" the notch with black on iDevices at least initially, but no such issues here. So overall really doesn't seem like it's a problem in this case, even for those who are fairly bothered on phones/tablets. A Mac screen isn't bad for it.
And of course, part of the highlighted point of these new machines is being able to drive a bunch of external displays too.
I don't understand why you'd have an issue with it? The screen area cuts into the previous gen's bezel so, at worst, you'd just black out the top of the screen to have the exact same screen size as before and, at best, you can use the extra display for things like the menu bar. What's the issue?
If you don't "get it" just by looking at it, then good for you. There are no technical arguments to make me "unsee" it. It's ugly. It displeases my sense of aesthetics. It's the Hitler mustache of industrial design.
The vast majority of these images hide the notch by not showing the menu bar at all, which is not how a Mac is generally used. The other images make it less noticable by putting it over a dark background. Does that convey confidence in the design, by the designers that were tasked to make it look good?
The best thing you can say is: It's not that noticeable under certain conditions.
Or, you know, under nearly every normal use case, it will just blend into the display. It causes no issues on the iPhones and looks just fine for what it is and, aesthetically, I'd prefer to have the slight bit of extra screen space for status icons and menus as opposed to a larger bevel. I don't see you proposing any better, more aesthetically pleasing solution, only complaining.
> How about not having a notch, like literally every other Apple (and non-Apple) laptop? Is that even conceivable?
So literally the least functional and useful of all possible options?
The notch isn't subtractive from previous generations' screen space. The bezel was removed except for the area where the notch is, adding a menu bar's worth of screen space. And the center of that menu bar is virtually always empty space. Your proposal is to add extra bezels back and subtract away a menu bar's worth of vertical space, just to remove a small protrusion that you won't even notice half a week into using the device.
“The design is not just what it looks like and feels like. The design is how it works.”
Let me tell you how this design is dysfunctional: It puts a piece of hardware that many people don't even use regularly in a very prominent place, in a way that many people find disturbing and unappealing. The UI needs to accommodate for this ("looks great in dark mode") to lessen the impact. The best thing you can say about it is "it's not that noticable" and "you'll get used to it".
There's another foolproof way to tell that the notch (on the iPhone) is a bad design: Nobody is copying it.
> It puts a piece of hardware that many people don't even use regularly in a very prominent place…
Perhaps you’ve heard of this “pandemic” thing where an absurd number of professionals are working remotely and participating in virtual meetings?
> …in a way that many people find disturbing and unappealing.
But that the clearly overwhelming majority—if the iPhone is any evidence—simply do not notice enough to care about. iPhones with the notch have continued to sell in record-setting numbers, despite your own personal sensibilities.
> The best thing you can say about it is "it's not that noticable" and "you'll get used to it".
The best thing I can say about it is that it’s a phenomenally well-executed compromise that leaves a frequently-needed piece of hardware in an ideal place while reducing useless bezels, adding screen real estate, and cleverly occupying an area of the screen that is almost certainly the most underutilized in all of macOS. Compared to the alternatives (a thicker bezel with lost screen real-estate, a thicker lid with a worse-quality camera, or a camera placed elsewhere) it is quite literally the optimal technical choice.
That it’s aesthetically unpleasant to some people is actually the worst thing you can say about it, and if it’s anything like the one on my phone, I literally won’t notice it unless someone is actively pointing it out.
> There's another foolproof way to tell that the notch (on the iPhone) is a bad design: Nobody is copying it.
You are one quick Google search away from enlightenment, friend.
> Perhaps you’ve heard of this “pandemic” thing where an absurd number of professionals are working remotely and participating in virtual meetings?
Perhaps, but having cameras on during a teleconference is counter-productive.
> But that the clearly overwhelming majority—if the iPhone is any evidence—simply do not notice enough to care about. iPhones with the notch have continued to sell in record-setting numbers, despite your own personal sensibilities.
I use an iPhone. I hate the notch. It doesn't bother me enough to switch platforms after a decade of iPhone usage, or getting an outdated iPhone, but it does bother me. With every new iPhone release, people like me are awaiting the end of the notch. Apple doubling down on this nonsense tells me: The notch is here to stay. They're trying to turn a flaw into brand identity. It's working, at least on people like you.
> The best thing I can say about it is that it’s a phenomenally well-executed compromise...
The reality distortion field at work. They could have made the notch massively smaller. They didn't because that notch is part of the brand. They could have just shrunk the bezel a tiny bit less to accomodate for a camera. They didn't, because again, they'd rather make it about the brand. The screen real estate argument is bogus. If that screen estate made a difference, they could've made the thing just a tiny bit larger.
> You are one quick Google search away from enlightenment, friend.
I'm not saying nobody ever copied it. I'm saying nobody is (still) copying it. It has been tested on the market, and the market said: No. Nobody wants a notch.
Then where would you put the camera and the sensors that are in there? If you don't have the notch, you have to increase the size of the bezel. Since the notch lives in the empty area of the menu bar, it's a better solution than a bezel and gives more screen real estate in the same form factor.
Yes, have a slightly larger Bezel instead of a huge unappealing notch. Did I mention how much I do not like the notch? Look in any of the comments sections of this new product, how many people are commenting on how this notch is off-putting? Does it seem like a worthy tradeoff? I do not think so.
Literally everyone, besides you, in this HN thread is commenting on how it's a good solution and gives more screen real estate while maintaining the aspect ratio. The only people complaining about it, including you, haven't really specified what about it is unappealing.
My comment is the most up-voted comment. Multiple people complain about the notch in this thread. There's no point in explaining why it looks bad, because if you don't see it, no explanation will make you see it. You are immune to it. Good for you. I'm not saying you should find it ugly.
It’s not only a joke, it’s also that once you see it, you understand that the aesthetics of a notch aren’t based in sleek features, but in function-over-form.
Not to mention that I, for example, have the top bar automatically hidden on my mac. Meaning, if I ever decided to buy one of these, I'd have to have it always shown, or I won't be able to click on some of my browser tabs?
How does full screen mode work with this, I wonder?
What's the other option? Under the screen has image quality issues. A thicker bezel means less screen space. Sticking up over the display is a worse compromise. Putting it on the bottom of the display really isn't ideal.
For most people, the only thing it covers is the menu bar.
I don't care. You need to process the hell out of a selfie image so you don't look like a goblin anyway. I'm sure the ML wizards at Apple can figure this out.
> A thicker bezel means less screen space.
The notch is a huge bezel with cutouts.
> Sticking up over the display is a worse compromise. Putting it on the bottom of the display really isn't ideal.
I agree.
> For most people, the only thing it covers is the menu bar.
It's not about what it covers, it's about harmony. A small hole is also superior, though most Android phones do not get the positioning right either. No, I don't care about Face ID, especially in the era of COVID. A finger print reader on the side or on the back is superior.
It's not about usable space. It's about the look. A smaller bezel doesn't lead to a better appearance by itself, but even then I'm sure they could've made the bezel smaller either way. However, the notch isn't made to be of minimal size. It's intrusive. It's telling me: I'm here, deal with it.
That space was black on the old MBP. It's black on the new MBP. I've now got two newly usable strips where the bezel used to be. The top menu bar is already left/right split, so it fits fairly naturally in there; my movies won't be any bigger or smaller with it.
I went from iPhone SE to 13 and the notch there was a nothingburger. Thirty seconds after the "oh right, there's a notch" it's mostly forgotten.
The notch is a transition technology. Suck it up now and in a couple of years the camera and other sensors should all be behind the screen like they are on the more out-there Android devices right now.
It's a much better compromise than the pop-up selfie cameras that were a fad for a sec, but then died because of the extra compromises needed for water resistance, battery, extra motor, etc.
The pop-up cameras proved reliable and I used a OnePlus 7 Pro for two years, and found it adequately water resistant (good enough for me to give it a rinse in the sink every now and then).
The internal space that the module occupied was the only real disadvantage of the pop-up camera, restricting the space available for the battery. Although I didn't have any complaints about the battery life of this phone.
It's very likely they'll include an option to have a black bar at the top of the screen, so that the notch is not visible. With the new Mini-LED screen it will be hopefully be dark enough to hide it well.
