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> These prices are <25% of the insurance "discount" prices

There are some clever insurance companies whose entire model is "tell the hospital you don't have insurance, get the cash price, pay it with this debit card we give you."




Not technically "insurance", these are cost-sharing companies. Often religious due to Obama's brilliance.


Is there evidence that Obama wanted those religious exemptions and bullshit cost sharing plans? I would be willing to bet that was a concession to other politicians in Congress in order to get ACA passed.


I'm thankful the concession was made. The lower price of cost-sharing made it possible for my parents to keep eating while providing for the family.


That's great until the church decides your parents are sinners and refuse to cover anything, and have no consequences for stealing their money.


People voluntarily join health sharing groups. They are run by non-profits, some of which have no religious affiliation.


They're not church-run organizations. This is reductionist, inaccurate, and I would go so far as to say bigoted.


You're welcome to think that about me, but health sharing is almost entirely scams using "religion" as a cover. See my other link in this thread. I'm happy for your family that they got a good one.


The parent comment never said anything about President Obama's desires regarding the Affordable Care Act, just that his 'brilliance' resulted in this outcome.


You misread. Parent thought those are a decent option and it's unfortunate that their availability is restricted.


They are required to have some shared religious belief to be exempt from the ACA.


Is it illegal to state you don’t have insurance when you do? Or is this product not considered Insurance in the legal sense?


I don't think it is. Sidecar Health is doing just fine on this model[1]

It's pretty perverse that you, an insured person, would have to lie about having insurance because the provider would charge you more for being insured.

[1] https://cost.sidecarhealth.com


The same goes for pharmacies. Walmart advertises $4 generics. If your insurance has a $25 drug co-pay, then they will charge you the full $25.


I do this. Once my insurance company got upset that my procedure was so expensive and rang the hospital. The hospital immediately tripled the price. The insurance became even more upset and asked me to fix it. Still much cheaper than the equivalent procedure in the USA.

It's not illegal here, but in any case nobody asks, I just tell them I'm paying cash.


It's not insurance. They're "fixed indemnity plans." Sidecar Health is the one I'm familiar with.

https://www.brookings.edu/blog/usc-brookings-schaeffer-on-he... (Fixed indemnity health coverage is a problematic form of “junk insurance”)


Health care consumers are absolutely free to pay providers directly even if they carry insurance coverage.


They could be running as a "health spending account" where you can spend the money on whatever you want provided it's health-related. You don't technically have "insurance" but you're insured.


Please provide an example or two.


[flagged]


Scams? They paid for my $6000 colonoscopy which caught early cancer, my daughters stitches, my wife's allergy specialist, my son's rocky mountain spotted fever, etc. etc. $500/mo for our family of 5 and we've been on it for nearly 10 years. But yes, please tell me more how this service that is way cheaper than insurance, is a community of people helping each other, and covers way more than insurance, is a scam.


> $6000 colonoscopy

Six grand to shove a camera up your butt? That's the real scam!


Can I ask what service you use? I'd be interested in checking it out.


Sure, I use Samaritan Ministries. I've tried other health sharing groups but Samaritan has been the best experience. They also have the best tech platform with the best user experience that I've seen. Samaritan is for christians but there are other health sharing groups that don't have that requirement.


No, this technique works with plain old insurance companies too. It's just that no one does it because they mistakenly give the hospital their insurance info - because, guess why? They ASK.

Also, healthcare sharing ministries are not scams. However they are simply not guaranteeing payment. It sounds like the truth of it is that the "guarantee" of payment is what makes traditional insurance expensive. Is that worth it? I think that's up to each individual.


I personally know several families that are a part of these co-ops and they have had incredibly expensive things fully paid for. What makes you call them a scam?


Can you elaborate on this? My gut agrees with you 100%, but I can't puzzle it out.


> (they’re scams).

citation or story?


https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/lauraturner/christian-h...

They're not inherently scams, but a major reason that the "premiums" are lower is that they have hardly any legal mandate to actually provide anything, which comes as a surprise to some members who are denied reimbursement. Their authority to deny "coverage" (scare quotes because that's not, technically, what they provide) is huge. In particular, HCSMs frequently deny reimbursement on the basis of conservative religious morality. Got an STD while unmarried, or cheating on your spouse, or just in an open marriage? You can't ask your good Christian neighbors to pay for that. Drug addiction or mental illness? The cure is more Jesus. Abortion? Not even to save your life. You get the idea.


If you agree to a contract and then break the terms of the contract why would you be surprised when things aren't covered? It's the same thing with insurance companies. Also, many of these examples are broad generalizations that may apply to some but not all of the health sharing groups out there.



I think instead of using a blanket statement and calling them all scams, the OP should have said that some are scams. That goes for pretty much any service out there. Here's a site with over 900 reviews of different health sharing communities. Some there are clearly scams by the terrible reviews.

https://healthsharingreviews.com/


> some [healthcare ministries] are scams. That goes for pretty much any service out there.

Not really? Which of the highly regulated healthcare insurers do you feel are scams?




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