A male who gives advice to their female co worker or a female they're managing clearly doesn't understand the current cultural situation when any advice can be taken as sexism. Best to keep quiet and work around it rather than trying to give advice or better them. Why get cancelled for the rest of your career for someone else's benefit?
It is a weird time. A buddy of mine, who worked with me some time ago landed a position at another place along with a classmate of her at the same time. Long story short, he landed a senior position and she did not. Her initial reaction was to go HR and claim discrimination.
Since I do consider myself her friend, I tried to take her off the ledge. You are just starting there. You do not want to brand yourself from get-go. You do not know what kind of backing the guy had. HR is not your friend.
I did not hear from her for a while so I hope she took the advice. I would not dare to offer this advice to someone I don't trust.
> I have never been accused of “sexism” despite the “risk” of working with women and men including giving advice to all genders.
Glad to hear it :). It's nice to know that things aren't that bad after all.
> Maybe you should think about the “advice” you give and why you are so worried about getting “cancelled”.
Fair enough. The advice given to the OP was "when closing sentences in presentations, you finish the sentence in a way that sounds like you're asking a question. Something to pay attention to going forward". [1]
The boss than later provided feedback when she improved that in her presentations by saying "you did great. I didn't hear you going up an octave at the end of your statements, came across as much more authoritative, it's super refreshing to provide feedback and then see you attempt to act upon it."
In general, I don't really see that as sexist at all. However, the person getting that advice said "This #tonepolicing is totally okay feedback to get from my #bigtech #male leaders and not #sexist".
At this point, considering that anything seems to be able to be taken as "sexist". Maybe it's better to keep your mouth shut when giving feedback to females. Again, Why risk your entire career for one person? That's my logic at least. I hope that doesn't mean I am sexist.
I've read enough of ashley's stories to know at this point she's not operating in good faith or within normal american standards of behavior. Currently the press is more than willng to go along with stories like hers because it helps their anti big tech narrative.
>>Maybe it's better to keep your mouth shut when giving feedback to females. Again, Why risk your entire career for one person? That's my logic at least. I hope that doesn't mean I am sexist.
Here's your simple test: Do you feel the same way about working with men? If not...I think you get your answer. But you already knew that didn't you?
> Do you feel the same way about working with men? If not...I think you get your answer. But you already knew that didn't you?
Not working, but giving feedback. You can work with someone without giving them feedback or trying to improve them.
However, touche.
I am not sure how that improves anything at all though. The entire point is that it seems like, in today's culture, it is better for men to not give feedback to women ala the case mentioned here (Ashley) and I've personally heard many other anecdotes as well. You can also see the case that the other person who replied to my comment talked about where a female coworker decided to file for discrimination just because the male was promoted.
I guess it is sexist (1). Although, isn't that what women want? After all, "#tonepolicing is totally okay from my #bigtech #male leaders" clearly indicates that males giving advice is not appreciated at least to one female. Mentioning their gender clearly indicates that being "men" is what is also an important factor in why the feedback was bad.
The addition of anecdotes, and the fact that anything taken even remotely badly is going to result in massive repercussions for the male who was giving advice only to benefit the female. Is providing benefit to another person really so important that one should take a risk? I am not sure.
It is sexist to give feedback, and it is sexist to not give feedback.
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1. I guess this means I am a terrible human being, I mean I don't really consider myself as sexist or not liking/hating women. I am perfectly happy to work with women, and in general would like more women in tech since the testosterone gets way too high in rooms at times. In general, I never have thought of myself as a person who's sexist.
However, I clearly did indicate a view where based on gender, I would likely choose to make a different decision in certain situations i.e. if I was giving feedback to a female, I would likely be a lot more cautious of my words and frame things so that there was no way for it to be taken badly, or more often, likely not say it because I am socially awkward enough anyway. :P
The advice doesn't matter . Anything can be labelled as "sexist" nowadays, and you can find yourself on the "cancelled" end just by interacting with the wrong type of person. Case in point, the very story we're discussing - raising the pitch at the end of a statement. There's nothing sexist about giving advice to correct that, because men do it too. However, the wrong type of person will project their sexist views onto the situation by claiming that it's something only women do. With enough pushing-the-right-buttons from that person (these types do seem to be relentless), you are now branded a sexist and cancelled. The patients are truly running the asylum these days.
I think you need better examples, because my first association with this one is how her behavior is evidently not authentic. We were already at risk of unreasonable people making our lives difficult anyway, so your broad claim about 'these types' feels more like shadow boxing (without broader context punctuated with specific examples).
Lets be real here though, the answer to the person you're talking to is effectively "get over it, what kind of person do you want to be?" when talking about this instead of suggesting there is no risk. Or concrete actions to take about managing it - like talking to your own mentor or person you trust as a sanity check if you'd otherwise be concerned.
Cause there is risk for people. There is a risk they are going to make a mistake, and/or find out that they are ignorant and that society has rapidly moved on from social mores they may be accustomed to.
