Ok so they’re planning to eventually roll out this spyware worldwide. I do not know how Americans can think China is bad in this while allowing this to happen.
China have actual slaves. You can't even know the real rate of incarceration in China, and trying to figure it out is almost a sure way to get arrested.
The US has a high incarceration rate because it has a high crime rate. If EU countries had US levels of crime, they'd have US levels of incarceration.
Also China doesn't count Uyghurs as incarcerated despite the fact that the PRC is committing genocide against them.[1] The PRC imprisons almost 2 million of Uyghurs a year. Of those, around a quarter million die. Oh and there's the forced sterilizations, destruction of mosques, brainwashing, banning of muslim-sounding names[2], forced labor, organ harvesting, and mandatory quartering of government agents.[3]
US has a high crime rate, because it has laws introduced specifically to increase the crime rate in specific racial groups; that’s where the War on Drugs came from.
China doesn’t count Uyghur extremists as incarcerated for the same reason the US doesn’t count their brethren it kills en masse in Middle East as death sentences. It’s just a different thing.
As for the rest of the list - most of it is just US state propaganda calling resocialization programs “brainwashing”, or leveling commercial buildings built without building permit “destruction of churches”. Some of that works exactly the same in US (forced labor), or is just entirely made up (“quarter million die”).
Now, some of the stuff is a real problem of course - death sentences and organ harvesting - but throwing it together with the usual US propaganda doesn’t help the cause.
> US has a high crime rate, because it has laws introduced specifically to increase the crime rate in specific racial groups; that’s where the War on Drugs came from.
That's not true. If you released everyone convicted of a drug crime (including manufacturing, selling, or distributing), you'd decrease the US prison population by 20%.[1] I'm all in favor of ending the drug war, but that won't do much to the incarceration rate. Also, the drugs that are illegal in the US are just as illegal in other developed countries (if not moreso). To use one example: in the UK, you can get up to 7 years in prison for simply possessing LSD or shrooms, and life in prison for for supplying or producing them.[2] No european country has legalized recreational marijuana[3], while the state I live in legalized it a decade ago. Now look at China's drug laws. While in China I've been solicited for all kinds of illegal goods and services, but never drugs. Stolen or fake merchandise? Sure. Prostitution? Of course. But drugs? Not a chance. The reason for this is that China executes people for drug possession. They randomly test foreigners entering the country and prosecute them even if they have no drugs on them.[4] The government raids nightclubs and residences, then forces everyone to take drug tests and prosecutes them if they test positive.
But please go on about how oppressive the US is.
I've seen you comment on China several times before and it's always in favor of the PRC. This confuses the hell out of me. Consider this: We could not have this discussion in China. To contradict the official narrative there is to risk your career and your freedom. Yes, the US and other countries have big problems, and it's good to try and fix them. But the level of surveillance and oppression in China is unlike anything in the west.
Sentencing for drug possession has secondary effects - it pushes large number of people into other kinds of crime. Thus, you cannot count only the direct 20%.
Regarding other countries - what would happen (and happened) to countries that refused to join War on Drugs?
Regarding possession - in UK essentially nobody cares, unless you’re distributing industrial quantities and/or are really obnoxious about it, eg walk into Constabulary smoking a joint, or by putting up advertisements. There are regular news about eg police finding a suspect car parked for six hours with engine on, filled with smoke (actual example I remembered because it’s funny) and they don’t result in charges. I suppose the law could be used if you also committed other offenses.
As for not being able to talk politics in China: where all the policy and law changes come from then? And if you can freely talk in the US, why so many people have many throwaway accounts here on HN?
Anyway: yes, China is oppressive in a number of ways. It’s about one generation behind the US, except for racism, where it’s ahead. US itself is perhaps a generation behind Western Europe. But everyone knows what’s bad about China, and everyone knows what’s good in the US. Anti-Chinese propaganda is everywhere, and I find it quite annoying. Particularly so because it detracts attention from real problems - if American propaganda is lying about genocides and missile silos, why assume other parts are true? Secondary: all the bad stuff in China stays in China. They don’t routinely exterminate hundreds of thousands people in other countries for financial or racial reasons. They don’t intentionally ruin other nations’ economy. The US does. And I feel like this perspective is entirely lost among western population.
Ok so they’re planning to eventually roll out this spyware worldwide. I do not know how Americans can think China is bad in this while allowing this to happen.