Perhaps you can name some people who fell victim to "cancel culture" who weren't utterly despicable people. Cancel culture is an utterance that seems to lack a singular clear definition.
When someone tells others to vote with their wallets against something that is contrary to their own interests if a conservative is effected by people's free choice not to associate with him we are told its "cancel culture" likewise when someone hires someone nearly entirely for their image then no longer desires to be associated with their former hire's flagging popularity which is flagging precisely because of their own bad behavior.
In a long winded fashion what she said could reasonably be interpreted as trans women aren't women. While she doesn't support discrimination against people on the basis of being trans she is promoting the same thought process that is pervasively used by individuals justifying discriminating against trans people.
Imagine if someone said its totally wrong to put Jewish people in camps, after all they deserve the same rights as you and I, but maybe they really did cause us to lose WWI...
There are people who really are just mistaken and then there are others who are weaponizing this strategy to minimize their obvious racism.
I think she is merely incorrect not malicious but the reaction is easy to understand and it absolutely has to do with the size of her megaphone not just what she said. Someone who wasn't the world famous author of Harry Potter just wouldn't have got the same reaction in the first place.
JK rowling has a billion dollars and a bright future despite the reaction to her views. Can you give me an example of some people who have actually and in fact been canceled?
Protecting billionaires from people saying mean things about them on twitter doesn't seem like a worthy cause.
"In a long winded fashion what she said could reasonably be interpreted as trans women aren't women."
Wasn't she saying that trans women have a possible biological advantage over non-trans women in performance sports such as weightlifting?
Isn't that a fair question to be asking and within the realm of scientific plausibility?
The frenzied cancel mob attacking her on Twitter was frankly insane. The fact that you need to be a billionaire to survive that and speak (or earnestly question) the truth is not good.
This is not even close to all she said on the topic. I think the biggest issue is her She support of an unapologetic bigot Maya Forstater but that is neither the beginning nor the end of her commentary on the topic and she ended up with her foot firmly planted in her own mouth. She not trans activists is the cause of her own discontent.
I skimmed the article. Is the issue that JK Rowling thinks the terms men and women should refer to sex and not gender? That seems to be the basis for her tweet in support of Maya. Isn't this a widely held view in the general population? I mean, she's neither right nor wrong. Man/woman can refer to either sex or gender depending on the context, and appreciating that is in line with reality.
I think JK Rowling's main point is that trans activists conflate sex and gender and this creates unfair outcomes in areas like sports, not to mention there's a deeply anti-science bent to it (for example denying that trans women have any biological advantages).
For being one of the few cultural mainstream voices speaking against those aspects in particular, despite the vitriol she receives, I think she's brave and I appreciate that.
Some people, not so much you, but people in general who are uncomfortable with the larger sexual identity issues prefer to focus on the woman's sport's angle because its comfortingly simple and avoids the things that make people uncomfortable.
Maya didn't have her contract renewed because she said things like the senior director of Credit Suisse was "a man who likes to express himself part of the week by wearing a dress"
Not for advocating for fairness in woman's sports.
To be clear as far as athletics. Trans people make up 0.5% of the population. The female->male portion is most apt to experience on average a measurable disadvantage while the male->female portion if they start hormones when it is medically advisable to do so wont experience the same clear average advantage as a male athlete who simply declared himself a female one day and switched teams.
> “For the Olympic level, the elite level, I'd say probably two years is more realistic than one year,” said the study's lead author, Dr. Timothy Roberts, a pediatrician and the director of the adolescent medicine training program at Children's Mercy Hospital in Kansas City, Missouri. “At one year, the trans women on average still have an advantage over the cis women," he said, referring to cisgender, or nontransgender, women.
> For the first two years after starting hormones, the trans women in their review were able to do 10 percent more pushups and 6 percent more situps than their cisgender female counterparts. After two years, Roberts told NBC News, “they were fairly equivalent to the cisgender women.”
It's a tempest in a teapot. All things being equal you are likely to end up with a small percentage of woman's athletics being trans women and nothing else changes. This is especially true of school athletics which are after all supposed to be for the betterment of the student body as opposed to for objective success.
The science of women's sports performance is more complex than that. For a more complete explanation I recommend listening to this episode of The Real Science of Sport podcast.
Believing "trans women aren't women" isn't "despicable", it's what everyone believed only 50 years ago, and what most people alive still believe. It's not even despicable if they were a minority.
The only reason the phrase TWAW exists is as an ideological counter to "trans women are men". They're really not either one, and saying trans women are women, full stop, is just an indefensible position.
She deserved strong negative feedback on that issues. Given same she doubled down. If you believe trans rights are important then its perfectly logical for example to boycott her books/movies. Which is to say she deserved to be canceled. By which I mean people simply vote with their wallets not to give her any more money. This doesn't infringe on her rights to live her life as she chooses she will just have to do so with less of other people's money.
This is fundamentally a different question from should someone hate her or say hateful things to her. Anything that stirs up strong emotions and reaches millions will result in both reasonable dialogue and insane screeching. The people who reasonably disagree with her can't do anything about the nutjobs nor are they responsible for same.
I disagree, because she doesn't want to strip anyone of any rights. I think people scolding others on these issues could seriously profit from a bit of headwind.
If you cannot be convinced to let people have their standpoints, I am for canceling you. Believe me, I would not enjoy it like you do.
I'd be remiss if I didn't speak up against this sub-thread. I mostly lurk here...but as you can see from my short post history...there was a point in 2019 when I didn't understand what was so wrong -- and SO dehumanizing -- about JK Rowling's actions.
I now see them for the attacks that they are.
Unfortunately...it took overcoming my repression, a lot of soul searching, and a lot of educating myself about all manner of topics in orbit of trans people.
I'm proud to say I'm a trans woman. J.K. Rowling and her hate-mob would like to see a genocide of anyone like me.
If you're earnestly interested in learning more, here's a recent-and-relevant video essay on just that topic.
PLEASE do not be another hate-mob to her, because after all, that's what we're all proclaiming our disgust with in this thread.
I truly wish everyone reading this could see it from my perspective...and I wouldn't wish --on anyone-- the suffering that entails.
Ignorance may well be bliss, but if things had stayed the same, I'd be hating who I turned into. ♥
Edit: Ooh, and for those earnestly edifying themselves, explore "Falsehoods about Gender 1 + 2", found here: https://github.com/kdeldycke/awesome-falsehood#human-identit... -- I think you'll find out the edge cases are far greater in scope than we (even yours truly, previously) presume.
Her opposition to trans rights is enough to term her despicable, her blatant and repeated use of racial, ethnic, and cultural stereotypes in her body if work is also rather bad.
I want to explore a hypothetical to understand your perspective a bit better.
Let's say the only thing she said on the topic was that she thought trans women shouldn't be allowed in competitive women sports because they probably have a biological advantage over non-trans women, or at least that there's insufficient evidence that they do not.
Would this be enough to justify the label of "despicable" in your mind?
No, it's not. But that's a pretty ridiculous hypothetical, very few people who aren't actually transphobic care so much and spend so much time griping about such a miniscule issue.
You keep saying this but that isn't close to the only thing she said on the topic nor was it the genesis of any of the drama surrounding the issue. If you haven't read more on the issue it purely down to ignorance but if you have its not an honest portrayal of the issues.
No, in the first sentence I clearly stated that it was a hypothetical. I wanted to see if that particular subset of what she has said is enough to classify her as "despicable".
Thank you those are some reasonable examples. So in your opinion how do we separate the notion of pulling down legitimate bad apple's and trying to punish thought crime.
They wont call it cancel culture because they were "canceled" by conservatives. Although they experienced substantial fall out for not supporting the Iraq War a move that now looks prescient they ultimately recovered.
They did a world tour in 2016 that sold out stadiums then did the Country Music Awards. In 2019 they released a new album and reportedly sold 33 million albums.
Also the idea that "cancel culture" is even a left-wing thing is laughable.
There is not a week that goes by that a conservative group of some stripe is not calling for the boycott of something or someone. There hasn't been a year that has gone by that this is not the case - anyone who grew up in the 90s would remember that this was generically video games in response to every social issue, then specific developers, before that it was comic books. For some reason in the 80s it was the imagined cabal's of Satan worshipers and the very real lives which were ruined by it in an actual way (they went to jail).
"I can't wait for vigilante squads to start gunning journalists down on sight"
2 days later when 5 are killed at the Capitol Gazette
"jk"
Then there was the article he wrote ""Birth Control Makes Women Unattractive and Crazy" where he argued that the pill made women fat crazy and promiscuous and then declared his birthday "World Patriarchy Day"
Then the time he said that being gay was "a lifestyle choice guaranteed to bring pain and unhappiness." Just reroll as hetrosexual folks!
Then there was the time he said it was OK for sexually mature 13 year olds to have sex with adults then claimed being the victim of sexual abuse made him say it. He also said abuse victims were "whinging selfish brats" for "suddenly" remembering they were abused, and "suddenly" deciding it was a problem, 20 years after the abuse occurred.
How about the fact that he used his tenure at Breitbart to court white supremacists and promote their views.
He was canceled in fact by none other than Breitbart not for this of course but for the pedophile comments which was apparently a bridge too far.
>where he argued that the pill made women fat crazy and promiscuous
I'm not aware of psychological side effects, but weight gain while taking the most common form of birth control pills is expected and normal. At least that's what the doctor told my wife and I.
Milo was basically a professional troll though. His banning was inevitable.
No offense intended, but people like you fed the troll. He obviously didn't believe a damn thing he wrote. You made him everything he became. Also, I would argue that every single person born into this world has made it a worse place. Where man stands, he leaves damage.
Well, he obviously knew where to poke. I think his banning was an overreaction. People could have opted no to listen to him. But he knew what sentiment was moving people, therefore he had quite a following.
When someone tells others to vote with their wallets against something that is contrary to their own interests if a conservative is effected by people's free choice not to associate with him we are told its "cancel culture" likewise when someone hires someone nearly entirely for their image then no longer desires to be associated with their former hire's flagging popularity which is flagging precisely because of their own bad behavior.