> The obvious conclusion to draw from all this is that complex human feelings and behaviors can’t in general be given reductive evolutionary explanations.
Agreed.
> There are more things in heaven and Earth than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
Yup. I'm a lot more confident that gay people exist than that ghosts exist, though :)
> Gay people are pretty used by now to being told that we don’t “fit in” to some overarching theory of nature that’s currently orthodox.
Agreed. It's tiresome.
> Evolutionary theory has contributed approximately zip to our understanding of human sexuality.
That's a point where I disagree, though I think most of what it's contributed is negative: debunking all kinds of wishful thinking on the part of neo-Victorians and Catholics.
> By all means continue to be puzzled that reproduction doesn’t explain every aspect of human behavior.
I don't plan to start being puzzled about that. Maybe you intended to post your comment on a different thread?
If reproduction doesn’t explain every aspect of human behavior then what exactly is supposed to be the puzzle posed by homosexuality? It is one trait that decreases a man’s chance of reproducing, along with many others that are widely attested throughout recorded history and given far less attention. To be puzzled by it you literally have to be puzzled that not every man is a optimal baby making machine.
Not to misinterpret kragen's excellent points or assign interpretations, but I believe the only surprise you find in this thread is from a biology standpoint. The practice or expressed preference of not seeking to be an "optimal baby making machine" is somewhat not the point in a repr-evo biology discussion, but the phenomenon is curious and intriguing to anyone with a passing interest in the sciences of life.
No judgement or opinion emitted, and especially not in matters of social sciences.
Yes I know. I’m asking what is puzzling about it from a biological point of view. As I said, men can have all kinds of traits that reduce their chances of reproduction. It is not at all uncommon for a man to have one or more of these.
Which ones are you thinking of? Are they traits we have in common with rams? Things like taking vows of celibacy are more easily explained as culturally created behavior, among other things because rams and mice don't do it and nobody is born a monk.
Agreed.
> There are more things in heaven and Earth than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
Yup. I'm a lot more confident that gay people exist than that ghosts exist, though :)
> Gay people are pretty used by now to being told that we don’t “fit in” to some overarching theory of nature that’s currently orthodox.
Agreed. It's tiresome.
> Evolutionary theory has contributed approximately zip to our understanding of human sexuality.
That's a point where I disagree, though I think most of what it's contributed is negative: debunking all kinds of wishful thinking on the part of neo-Victorians and Catholics.
> By all means continue to be puzzled that reproduction doesn’t explain every aspect of human behavior.
I don't plan to start being puzzled about that. Maybe you intended to post your comment on a different thread?