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AmigaOS 3.2 (hyperion-entertainment.com)
160 points by andy_herbert on May 14, 2021 | hide | past | favorite | 86 comments



Vaguely related: approximately 20 years ago I hosted "The Amiga Alternative Audio Page". Every time I migrate my blog to a new platform -- which is often because I like to tinker with it -- I figure this is the time I'll finally kill that page forever. And then my web logs fill with 404s and I bring it back from the dead because I don't have the heart to kill old Amiga software.

So, https://honeypot.net/post/the-amiga-alternative-audio-page/ is still a thing, but please don't ask me to update any of that software. I wouldn't know how to anymore if I wanted to.


Upload it to the Internet archive, maybe? They already have a lot of Amiga software, so it won't feel lonely.


Please keep it, I'm going to get an Amiga as soon as I can afford to buy a place do I have somewhere to put it :)


I’ve kept it this long. I’ll keep it around a little longer, but just for you specifically. :-)


Anyone interested in a comprehensive summary of the Amiga legal spaghetti should take a look at https://sites.google.com/site/amigadocuments/

Play by play updates on their Twitter at https://mobile.twitter.com/amigadocuments


And, by extension, I'd suggest not fueling the legal drama by funding the lawyers through buying Hyperion's 3.2 or Cloanto's products.


So…who exactly do you buy from, then?

That's a semi-serious question; the "Amiga Documents" site linked in the post you're replying to seems to cast Hyperion as the (relative?) villains and Cloanto as the (relative?) good guys, but it seems if you want a version of AmigaOS released this century, that means Hyperion.


>So…who exactly do you buy from, then?

Nobody.

>Seems to cast Hyperion as the (relative?) villains and Cloanto as the (relative?) good guys

They're both spending all their cash fighting each other. I support neither.

>but it seems if you want a version of AmigaOS released this century, that means Hyperion.

Support AROS. Copy AmigaOS, don't support it. That is the conclusion I arrived to.

This is one way of many possible: https://www.power2people.org/projects/overview/


After skimming through it I have mixed feelings. On one hand I wanted to purchase it. I no longer have a real Amiga, but could use it on UAE.

But from that summary Hyperion Entertainment does not look that great and seems like it's the reason why AmigaOS did not became open source.


Is there a summary of the summary?

Also, is there any financial value left in that IP? From an outside perspective it looks like people fighting over table scraps.


tl;dr: The Amiga was created by a company Commodore bought, then Commodore ran itself into the ground, ESCOM bought up the corpse, then ran themselves into the ground, Gateway bought up ESCOM and sold/spun off the Amiga assets into Amiga Inc, Amiga Inc licensed their OS to Hyperion. Meanwhile Cloanto has been working on AmigaOS since 1993 and Amiga Inc also licensed their OS to Cloanto. Hyperion spends more of it's time shipping litigation rather than software.

The financial value of the AmigaOS is nil. Zero. Nothing. At best you could maybe sell copies to enthusiasts, but even tens of thousands of sales wouldn't be enough to hire even a single full-time developer unless you priced it way too high. This would be a poster child for relicensing as Free Software if it weren't for the fact that the OS was tied up in litigation and license double-dealing.

TBH, is the way pretty much all proprietary software dies. Companies holding onto their software through bankruptcy are legally obligated to sell it to whoever will recoup the most money for creditors; but usually their software is already outdated or unusable. So it will almost always get sold to sketchy companies or wind up sitting in some bank's junk assets portfolio for the end of time. Even if that wasn't the case, most proprietary software is actually very much not legally Freeable, because it has other non-Free dependencies. Occasionally, you get an outright miracle like Blender, where the whole app is owned by one bankrupt company and you can crowdsource enough capital to pay off creditors.

(Examples of other abandoned software whose owners' hands are tied would include things like Adobe Flash Player or IBM OS/2.)


> Hyperion spends more of it's time shipping litigation rather than software.

That's a weird comment to make on the day Hyperion ships a second significant update to AmigaOS in 3 years, while Cloanto has been sitting on its IP to sell a glorified, Windows-only UAE bundle with no improvements whatsoever.

I don't have an opinion on the legal fight, but as user I can see who's actually moving things forward, and that's where I'm putting my money.


I don't know. At right now the AmigaOS IP is pretty much worthless and only people interested in it are fans that are driven by nostalgia.

Cloanto was trying to open source it (which is probably the best thing for such base) but Hyperion blocked that effort.

Hyperion also doesn't hire any developers.


I learnt C programming and a lot of stuff about UN*X systems from my Amiga 500 and later on a heavily expanded 1200, thanks to a wonderful "Geek Gadgets Version 2" project. I even ran GCC on my Amiga back then. After that, in 2001, I switched entirely to GNU/Linux (RH7) and I knew quite a lot about how to use it since day one, thanks to my wondeful Amiga computer and Geek Gadgets.


same! geek gadgets was awesome


OMG, I've waited for this! I was SO worried litigation from Clonato would make all the work by Thomas Richter & Co. go to waste on the finishing line. It's remarkable how litigations are still a thing with the Amiga brand. I don't understand how the profits for the winning party is expected to be greater than the lawyer costs.


I used Amiga with Amiga OS 3.1.

I'm puzzled though, because I heard there was Amiga OS 3.5, 3.9, 4.0, 4.1, 4.2.

How come now it's 3.2?


This comment explains the confusing mess of branches: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27159553


Thanks, I should scroll further down before asking then I would also see it.


I'm amazed that it can be profitable to still develop an OS for those machines!


I'd be surprised if it's profitable. Maybe a labor of love. I've been an Amiga fan since the late 80's. It was my favorite machine. Nothing quite has had the magic of booting up games like Shadow of the Beast or Blood Money. The Amiga was truly a quantum leap.


Shadow of the Beast was one of the most impossibly hard games to play of all time. But that sounds and music.


If you ever played that series, you know this music, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SDO6__ya6B0 and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HKHecxVDEts . I'm surprised they were only 37 seconds long, it often felt like it was minutes (maybe that was just the disk crunching loading the music).


A lot of games from that era on the Amiga were like that, great in the audio-visual department but with terrible gameplay.


The parallax scrolling was incredible for 1989. Nothing was quite like it.


And the intros. I spent more than me watching the intro sequences and listening to the music than playing the game. Got a bunch of remixes of it.


AFAIK the company that sells this owns the rights to the Amiga OS and has unpaid volunteer(s) actually doing the work on the OS, so it is profitable.


That too, hahaha! There must be a small, tightly knit but rich/supportive community still there.


I think it's also useful for legally running an Amiga emulator?


The most extraordinary thing here is not only it’s being done, but it’s being done in a proprietary way.

The surface of the AmigaOS is tiny in comparison with any modern system. It’s surprising nobody took a free RTOS and built an Amiga API on top of it, enough to fool Amiga software into being compiled for modern hardware and run directly on real Amigas.


You might have an unduly notion of the amount of "being done". The most "modern" up to date AmigaOS will take several seconds every time you open a drawer (directory) loading icons one by one, even on the fastest possible Amiga (Vampire or emulated one) using modern SSD. Its all dressing a pig for the hardcore fanbase using their Amigas to run SysInfo once a year after buying another $xxx accelerator card and reminiscing about the good old times when they were 14y old kid.


I think that's AROS[1].

When trying to remember its name I also found Apollo OS[2].

[1] https://amigang.com/software-aros/

[2] http://www.apollo-computer.com/apollOS.html

Edit: Looks, like Apollo OS is a fork of AROS that is optimized to run on the original Amiga hardware.


ApolloOS is optimized to run on "680x0" hardware, including the FPGA based Vampire accelerators (and presumably the standalone Amiga replacement). So while it will run on original Amiga hardware, it also has optimisations that are Vampire specific (extra instructions etc.)


I see, thanks for the explanation.


I can't keep track anymore. Is this a successor to 3.1.4 that came out not long ago, or something different?


Yes, here's the timeline to clarify:

Kickstart 1.0 - 3.1: By Commodore. Actually 3.0 was "officially" last but 3.1 was ongoing work that got wrapped up well enough. I don't really remember if Commodore officially released 3.1 or if it was picked up from their corpse by someone.

HAAGE & PARTNER BRANCH:

AmigaOS 3.5-3.9: First post-3.1 versions from 1999-2000 (for Motorola 68020 and up rather than 68000 and up) by Haage & Partner. Main features a TCP/IP stack and a new GUI, a new GUI toolkit called ReAction, MPEG movie player, MP3 player, >4 GB disk partitioning support.

HYPERION POWER PC BRANCH:

AmigaOS 4.0-4.1: First PowerPC-only version. Main features memory virtualization, new GUI, integrated third-party graphics driver support, etc.

HYPERION "CLASSIC" BRANCH:

Now they returned to 3.1 BUT with 3.9 source code still on their hands. Trying to advance Kickstart from a new angle that allows support for all Amigas, even the 68000 (Amiga 500). This is NOT for PowerPC. AmigaOS 4 is for those systems but since that's basically a dead end in 2021, this is a more pragmatic move. I also find less "careless" and more conservative than 3.5+, focusing on kernel improvements rather than bolting on big third party tools and libraries. Basically more how I'd expect actual Commodore releases would look like.

AmigaOS 3.1.4: Backporting numerous features and lessons learnt from 3.9 and now available for all Amigas, that is including the MC68000. An important update for classic Amigas since it brings in particular support that makes interacting with modern hardware easier with larger hard drives, and I think it added MC68060 support too for accelerators and whatnot.

AmigaOS 3.2: A continuation of the 3.1.4 branch and now probably surpassing 3.9 in many areas.

AmigaOS 3.x...?


3.1 was the last official Commodore release.

I totally don't need 3.2, but I admit that I want it anyway just so my UAE can feel shiny and new.


Barely. It was released during the liquidation.

http://www.bambi-amiga.co.uk/amigahistory/amigaos31.html


A "timeline" with almost no dates.


This is a successor to 3.1.4, yes.


How many 68K Amiga's still working exist today ???. I don't get it.


I have my old Spectrum and Atari ST and from time to time I run them. My friends had Amigas and Apples(or their parents had them) that were super expensive at the time. I bought one Amiga from a friend when it got old. I also got old consoles cartridges and emulate them using FPGA devices as the original consoles died and I have not analog TVs anymore, so I need to use converters.

What I get from using those machines is feeling rich. I can look at my phone or a raspberry pi and say: Wow!!, that has millions of times more memory!

You also get the essence. With such a limited power they made programs that were useful and games that were funny. Now you have Unity or Unreal Engines powering games that are not fun or electron apps consuming gigabytes of memory that are not useful because the basics are wrong.

I use old Autocad for DOS with Autolisp support and you realize after all this time, the thing is useful.

My job is creating software so reminding what the basics are is always important.


We have FPGA implementations of the Amiga nowadays; these are basically identical to the original hardware.

It's quite amazing, I can highly recommend checking them out: https://github.com/MiSTer-devel/Main_MiSTer/wiki


I didn't see on the github page whether there's an Agnus, Denise, and Paula?



Only in FPGA. No original chips.


Quite a few. The retro computing scene is extremely popular at the moment with Amigas being much in demand. Amiga use in the US was pretty low except for certain sectors such as TV production. I know more people with Amigas now then I did when they were originally sold.


Add my anecdata to yours, I also see a lot more interest (including from myself) now than when it was sold in regular shops. And not just from demosceners.


It gets even weirder when you realise that apparently it's some ones job to maintain an 35 year old operating system... for a platform that's no longer manufactured.

How do you even hire for that position? What tools do the AmigaOS team use?

I love that this is still worked on, and I'd love to know more about what that job is like.


I booted up my A1200 in 2008 to see if it still worked after ten years of disuse - it did.

Then a month ago in 2021 I booted it up again to see if it still worked after a further 13 years of disuse - and it did again.

Played Zool both times!


If you want to make sure it boots up next time though, consider having it recapped : on A600/A1200/CD32 it's a matter of when, not if, low quality capacitors will leak and damage the board.


I do the same with my PowerPC iBook clamshell from time to time. Amazed the tiny PCMCIA sized 5GB spinny disk hard drive is still original!


Hey, we even added an M68k backend to LLVM recently with Rust support already on the way \o/.


o7


It's a pretty special machine. It can display a lot of colors and has PCM (sampled) sound, but is still simple enough that you can understand everything that's going on. The SNES is comparable but hard to program. The DOS PC is comparable but less standardized.

(I am not an Amiga user, but I'd love to get one in the future when I have more space, time, and money.)


Dude, nothing beats the Amiga.


Most that exist are still working.

They were well-built, and the most sold models (A500, A600, A1200) do not have the barrel batteries that leak and destroy PCBs.

A500+, A2000/3000/4000 have these batteries, but they weren't anywhere as popular as the other models.

If you own any of these, ensure you've removed the barrel battery (cutting it out with pliers is good enough, and the Amiga will still work).

I personally have 2xA500, 1xA500+, 1xA600, 1xA1200, all working.

I tend to have one running at all times. It's the A1200 right now.


And for the A600/A1200/CD32, make sure you have them recapped sooner rather than later. Old leaking capacitors can and do damage PCBs.


Most ended up with ram expansions including RTC with battery, not to mention leaked capacitor juice dissolved chip pins and pcb vias.

They were build just a tad better than contemporary Atari ST from the point of signal integrity, but Commodore manufacturing plant was a shit show. Multiple models shipped with capacitors mounted in reverse polarity (1200, 4000, CD32).


Managed to get my 6mb A1200 on the internet just the other day.


Caps and batteries on Amiga motherboards go bad and need replacement and cleaning up. There are replacement Amiga motherboard projects to keep Amigas alive just transplant chips from a dead Amiga motherboard to the replacement motherboard. Also replacement Amiga case designs.

Not to mention the emulators out there. It seems everyone wants at least Amiga via emulation, just won't emulate PowerPC Amigas.


I am perpetually surprised at this. I remember 24 years ago a colleague of mine had the butchered remains of an A1200 with all sorts of daughter boards literally taped inside a PC case. Just before covid hit i by chance bumped into him and yep he was still using it apparently.

I have test equipment that’s 50 years old in active service so I suppose the mantra of “if it works and makes you happy, use it” is still valid.


Still have my Amiga 1200 (expanded with 68040+MMU, RAM, VGA adaptor card which I can use to plug into one of my LCD monitors, plus some stuff I've probably forgotten) and I'm sure if I powered it up again it'd still work.

Powered it up a few years ago and it worked fine.


There were about 10k hard-core users left a few years ago, and many have multiple Amigas. There's probably at least as many (probably many more) enthusiasts with working hardware, and a ton of people running UAE and the like.


I fire up UAE every now and then for the fun of it.

Edit: I just realized that what I really want is an easy way to launch a single Amiga app in a window on my Mac. Double-click an icon and have The Bard's Tale up and running? Yes please.


What you are looking for is this: https://www.amigaforever.com/


Given that kstrauser specified "an easy way to launch a single Amiga app in a window on my Mac," an Amiga emulator that only runs on Windows -- however good it may otherwise be -- is probably not in fact what they're looking for. :)

(Edit: I see that Cloanto does have a somewhat cryptic page for macOS, but the way I read it, Macs can only run the open source UAE that I gather Amiga Forever is built on top of. So https://fs-uae.net might be a better place to investigate.)


My apologies. I simply glossed over the Mac bit. :( Just having a hard time.


That’s exactly the one I use, with the ROMs and ADFs from Amiga Forever. Still wish I could double-click a Defender of the Crown icon and be playing it a moment later.


That’s more for a whole desktop (which is also awesome), but it’d be fun to be able to launch and quit an Amiga app as easily as a Mac app.


I still have a working Amiga 500 at my parents' house in Germany.


Your parents might be alright, but I've heard a lot of horror stories where parents sell, give away or trash people's old computers.

i.e. If you care about it, better keep it close to you.


I had an Amiga 1000 in a staircase closet in my parent's basement. It just needed a new floppy drive and keyboard. My brothers cleaned up and found it broken and threw it away.


Are you kidding me? The Amiga scene is the most dedicated retro scene there is. Plenty of people with real hardware -- like myself -- are gonna be real excited over this.


Most Amiga users prefer either WB 3.1 or WB 3.9 with Boing Bags up to 3-4.


There is a huge market. Like myself, I'm definitely buying this for my Amigas. Also for supporting the team.


I have one. The music trackers on them are amazing.


I don't get it, can someone explain?

Why would someone release of a modern version of an Amiga operating system for sale on CDROM?

Who would use this?


Amigans. It's a small but very tenacious community.


Can someone post some screen shots? :D



I wonder what those "100 new features" are...!?


Click "Read More..." to find out.


Ah, thanks, I didn't catch it! :)


Does it require new ROMs over 3.1.4? Or do I just buy the disk images and upgrade my HDD install?


The FAQ mentions new ROMs, so there are specific 3.2 ones.




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