I'm in East Idaho. Currently my dish angles itself to the north. It rarely moves itself north/south, and slightly moves east/west throughout the day. I've read that right now it locks onto a single satellite, although they're adding multi-satellite support later.
My speeds are inconsistent, and interestingly they start slow (around 60 Mbps) but after a couple seconds they'll get to 150-200 Mbps (which is awesome for downloads). Latency is consistently in the low 30ms. I get some downtime every day, so it really is a "beta" like they say. I have a backup WISP.
Setup was literally take dish out of the box, insert into tripod (included), plug in cables, connect to the wireless routers SSID and activate with the starlink app. After that I put the included router into storage and plugged in my Protectli running CentOS. Everything works great. My only complaint is the CGNAT, but given the difficulty associated with procuring IPv4 addresses, it's understandable.
 I love this thing.
There's a lot of fiber out here, but you'll need to either be near a city center of in a new enough area. The homes that are 10 to 15 years old are underserved and you're mostly stuck with a wireless ISP. But ... Starlink is about to negate that in my opinion!
I live in chicago( south loop/pilsen ) too. What has been going on lately that is making you consider the move?
Eventually moved back to my hometown and wouldn't care if I never saw Chicago again.
It's a bit difficult to feel all that neighborly or friendly with people adamant that they won't even wear a mask to help protect your own health.
And all the topics listed - religion, political affiliation, guns - are all infamous for causing strife. Even the most tolerant person can easily wish to simply minimize the chances of a conflict. Tensions over these matters also only seem to be intensifying, which further exacerbates the matter.
(I'm going to assume you mean that number nationwide)
75%, or roughly so, nationwide would be one thing if it was evenly distributed. But as you noted, the issue is tied to politics (I think more than you imply, but doesn't matter). We also know political affiliation is not evenly distributed.
So, a number like 75% mask compliance makes it possible, and frankly very likely, that there are areas with substantially lower rates.
How did a Starlink post devolve into this chain about rural ideologies?
GP did us the courtesy of stating the source of their views. Seems to be hearsay, but if this statement is true it's not speculation.
I think when we blanket stereotype people based on geographic location, the error rate is quite high. In my opinion, unacceptably, but then I've always value tolerance, acceptance, and open mindedness (although for people that don't offer that to others I admit little patience, and I don't want to be around them).
Having lived in places with similar ideological demographics, I caution that living in a place means you're going to visit all sorts of neighborhoods there, and it would be (not saying you're recommending this) untenable to recommend that certain people would do just fine if they keep to the neighborhoods where they are welcome.
If a particular neighborhood in an area is hostile to certain people for no good reason, it makes the entire area hostile because all of the people involved can and do operate outside of the geofence.
I wish you’d quarantine yourself to social networks like Reddit where the discourses are already sufficiently poisoned.
Considering that probably 40% of your hn comments seem to be some variety of partisan axe grinding on American-specific political issues, maybe you might want to take a look in the mirror first.
I wonder if I somehow can set up my Mikrotik routers to tunnel through you and transparently provide IPv6 for my whole LAN, that would be swell.
I never tested WireGuard, but, for instance, I had no issue connecting via OpenVPN to personal and work VPNs from China (on standard ports with no effort to hide). If you try and use OpenVPN to connect to any of the well-known VPN providers with it though, it will be blocked.
Even if you find it works initially, as soon as someone catches wind of it being used to bypass the firewall and/or they see a surge of traffic to your services, you're likely to end up blackholed.
Especially for a paid service, it's probably more of a support headache than it's worth.
Unless you're looking to make a stand, I'd probably just steer clear of the whole situation. It's illegal in China to operate an internet services without a license and it could come back to bite you in the ass down the road if you ever intend to do business there or travel there.
For many of us that's reasonably fast ;). In the UK, FTTC provided over POTS (often BT or some form of unbundle), the top end is 80Mbs/20Mbs.
I don't know what you'd expect with cable provisioned areas supplied by the likes of Virgin (DOCSIS).
200 Mbps to each apartment was offered so I assume they had fibre and not DOCSIS.
I imagine the issue in zone 1 is having to tear up the roads to get cable installed. In new builds you have to do that anyway, so it's good business to get in on the action.
It is done for market segmentation purposes, not because there is a technical requirement for it. Asymmetric vs symmetric is used to separate residential from business customers, and charge the later category higher prices.
If they offer symmetric speeds to home users, they worry that business customers will try to switch to residential plans in order to save money.
If their key differentiator between the two connection types are upload speeds then they should adjust the pricing and/or clarify (or actually add some) the value add for the business line. That is just unfortunate
I've got some PC-based firewalls like the Protecli. Mini-ITX, atom-based, 8gb ram. I can often find these for <$50 on auction sites. If it's one I'll be the main "owner" of, I like to run VyOS for firewall and routing. This is the open-source fork of Vyatta, and Ubiquiti's EdgeOS is a commercial sibling (granted, EdgeOS has or at least had some advantages over IPv6 PD). VyOS is debian arm based, so lots of packages like ZeroTier VPN can be added easily. I like VyOS/EdgeOS because of the full CLI/scriptable config.
I recently setup 3 of these for a radio club. These will live in mountaintop tower locations and provide VPN+NAT. Since these might get modified by others, I went with OPNSense. OPNSense is a fork of PFSense with a nice Web UI and community support.
not to quibble too much but I think the bulk of vyos development takes place on x86-64 and the standard build-your-own-install ISO guide is for x86-64. Though it certainly can be compiled for various types of arm CPU.
this is because if you want things like eight or ten 10GbE interfaces, or eight 10GbE and four 100GbE in one server, the only economically viable and fully stable platform for vyos right now is x86-64.
I love that it runs vanilla Linux/BSDs and is a complete white box. I'm able to configure it exactly the way I want it, and I can even run non-trivial services on it. These days I mostly just port forward as I like to keep things as separate as possible so that when one thing goes down I don't lose everything, but it's great to have options.
Especially while I've got two ISPs, the ability to bond and use both at the same time is super neat.
These have not been prettied up for public consumption, but this is how I have it configured if you're interested: https://gist.github.com/FreedomBen/f8a50c7a98c07171a99c419a5...
Why do you expect better than LTE?
And would you say more about WISP behavior? I know WISPs are all over the place, but in my small experience, a technically competent WISP will not look at your usage unless there’s contention impacting other customers.
Like, Starlink has said they won’t service urban areas, to prevent degradation due to contention. So I expect them to use the usual TOS and technical controls... to prevent contention. I don’t see what makes them special here. If they had some special sauce to provide more cumulative bandwidth to subscribers than LTE and WISPs, I’d expect them to open up to urban areas stuck with Comcast, and profit massively.
For people who have budgeted, procured and installed 'serious' two way geostationary stuff in the past (one example of which would be a 2.4m two port linear compact cassegrain antenna, NJR PLL LNB, a 40W BUC, a Comtech CDM760 modem and a 1U sized Cisco router), for 1:1 SCPC dedicated transponder capacity based services, starlink is atonishingly fast.
I could pull out a check book and spend $45,000 on buying terminal hardware and $30,000 a month in transponder space and not be able to achieve the speeds that starlink can do right now. Even if starlink was only 20 Mbps down and 4 Mbps up, go price what 20x4 service will cost by traditional geostationary right now (hint: start looking at $1200 per Mbps per month and multiply by N number of Mbps).
It is indeed a good theory that I'm seeing unreasonably higher than normal speeds right now and better latency, jitter and packet loss because I'm in a similar situation to being the first customer on a new WISP PtMP AP sector. But I also have a great deal more confidence that spacex's continued paces of launches and satellite deployment will keep up with providing at least a 100 Mbps down x 15 Mbps up service. I do not think that they will let it degrade into a contended-service-hell where customers see a very poor end user experience.
My perspective on starlink is also informed by knowing the price right now for Inmarsat and Iridium based offshore and aviation data services (sub 2 Mbps) and the $ per megabyte costs. There's already starlink aviation terminals in beta, and terminals for maritime and offshore use. It'll be a game changer there. The market for a globe-covering LEO high throughput satellite network is much larger than just the US48 state consumer residential internet/small business last mile internet market.
I'm not nearly as optimistic about WISPs in the long run, compared to my views 8-10 years ago. Really difficult to reach locations will go to starlink or similar (as a replacement for consumer grade geostationary), other places where the customers per square km density is sufficient will eventually get overbuilt with GPON last mile that provides vastly more throughput and capacity.
The most clueful and forward thinking WISPs I know are all making every effort possible, within whatever capital resources are available to them, to develop in house capacity for doing rural aerial FTTH. Buying bucket trucks, getting training, learning how to splice fiber, design GPON architecture, working with state PUCs for pole access, etc.
By comparison LTE fixed last mile services in some places (where expensive spectrum is owned by entities like tmobile) have some of the prime tree-penetrating frequencies in the 600 and 700 MHz bands, and 2.5 GHz band. One of the reasons why clearwire was acquired by sprint was for their 2500 band.
Typical is to quietly throttle you into oblivion.
Above average users are not and never welcome.
I do like T-Mobile's offering as an alternative to these crappy cable companies.
t-mobile will probably have cell towers/coverage where people live vs starlink which grants coverage where people do not live.
My opinion of Starlink and what it means for the world was being completely reshapen until I read your comment again!
What industry is that lexicon from?
The weird angled router they had out is just a convenience for non technical consumers who want an all in one 802.11ac box. The app on the phone also does the very basic first time setup step of defining an SSID and WPA2-PSK key.
I've been contemplating putting one on my boat for use while at anchor. There is constant movement but its horrible
In fact a current starlink terminal (which has a 6-axis sensor and GPS receiver built into it) will turn itself off if it detects movement. The terminals for things like yachts are not available to the public yet, though I have no doubt they're in the works.
The dish is heavy and feels tough; I'd be more worried about your mount than the dish itself with regard to wind; we're having 40 mph gusts today in St. Louis and dishy's working fine.
I'm more worried about hail, though... hopefully we can avoid the golf ball variety this spring.
Is the upload/download speed the same? Does your public IP frequently change?
EDIT: Ah -- CGNAT. Missed that part.
Here are my config files if you're interested. I've redacted my domain and some of the mac addresses. One of these is a shell script that sets up the firewall: https://gist.github.com/FreedomBen/f8a50c7a98c07171a99c419a5...
My other ISP also uses PoE to power a wireless dish (line of sight) and uses a little less power but not a ton less.
Then there's DOCSIS 3.1, which actually supports up to 1 Gbit/s up, but Comcast still only gives you 35 Mbps on their gigabit plan.
IMO it just comes down to Comcast and other cable providers being cheap and not investing in their infrastructure to provide better upload speeds, even though the tech itself is capable of it.
Certain ISPs like Cox have started using OFDMA (Docsis 3.1) upstream channels as it is 50% more efficient than classic Docsis channels and you can operate it closer to spectrum with interference since it can run subchannels at lower modulation
How about video/audio calls? does Wi-Fi calling work well?
That said, when I'm on my own machines or ones that I can install things on, I can't recommend mosh highly enough. I've literally gotten on a plane and had the shell pick up thousands of miles away without missing a beat once the laptop was back online at the hotel.
SSH works but there's enough latency and other general network variation that makes me think it's not quite good enough an experience to spend a day remotely editting files.
For anything not requiring really low-latency, Starlink absolutely shines. Watching the local news from my childhood farm on the other side of the country via satellite internet feels like the future.
I'm on traditional satellite for one week out of every two - at 600ms RTT. I'm either SSH'ing into hosts over that link, or worse, using a Citrix VDI to access (mostly) SSH terminals at the far end.
It's tolerable but far from enjoyable.
30ms latency would be an utter delight, not just compared to geostationary, but also compared to what we had in the late 20th century in terms of terrestrial connections.
100/16 Mbps is pretty decent I guess, hopefully it doesn't go down as the number of users goes up. The latency is great imo, 40ms using satellites? I don't think anyone has achieved that before.
Would a bigger dish work better or not?
A bigger dish would not lower latency but may increase signal strength leading to better throughput. But it's not a simple parabolic antenna. It is the first consumer oriented phased array antenna tracking the satellites as they move across the sky, so that would increase the antenna cost even more.
A better signal strength would probably lead to better modulations being used, therefore, less transmission and reception time, and a better latency, or am I wrong ? (at least that's the case for Wi-Fi: the better the signal strength, the lower the transmission time so the better the latency).
At 100 Mbps with a 40 ms latency, there are about 2 megabits in the air between the ground station and CPE.
Is it though? Starlink orbits at 550 km, time-of-flight from ground to satellite to ground would be only 3.7ms, twice that makes ~20% of the roundtrip latency.
From what I read it has to do with the fact the antennas are high gain directional antennas and not omnidirectional ones like on cell phones. With cell phones you are kinda walking around in a soup of cell signals all sharing the same spectrum at once... you and hundreds of other people are broadcasting in the same frequencies at the same time and they all tell each other apart because they all use a different “language”; the Wikipedia CDMA article does an excellent job explaining this.
I would think that as more satellites get launched they could use WCDMA and signal from your station could be seen by multiple satellites in orbit much like a cell phone can reach multiple towers.
Writing it out... I bet TDMA is required because the FCC would never grant a block of spectrum where hundreds of thousands of ground stations were using low gain, somewhat omnidirectional antennas to reach a constellation of satellites in space....
That is actually really cool.
So it is doing some combination of time division and spacial division.
In this phase Starlink uses 72 orbital planes, with 22 satellites per plane, so 1440 satellites in total (they're almost there). It orbits at 550km above Earth's surface, so the orbit has radius 6921km, which gives an orbital length of 43486km.
Separation between orbital planes varies depending on your latitude, but assume the worst case, where it is 43486km / 72 / 2 = 302km¹. Thus, the nearest orbital plane is at most 302km / 2 = 151km away from the orbital plane directly overhead. However, since the planes process, on average the nearest orbital plane is only half that, or 76km away from the plane overhead.
Satellites within each plane have a separation of 43486km / 22 = 1976km. Thus, there's always a satellite at most 1976km / 2 = 988km away¹ from any point in each orbital plane, and on average there's a satellite half that away, or 494km.
Adding all this together, the nearest satellite is on average √(550^2 + 76^2 + 494^2) = 743 km away (at the worst latitude).
[EDIT: Actually, that's improper averaging, the correct average is obtained with ∫√(550^2 + x^2 + y^2) dx dy / ∫ dx dy on x=0..151, y=0..988, which yields 777km].
The original plan used 24 planes with 66 satellites, which reduces average distance to 617km. At more favorable latitudes the difference with the current design would be even larger.
[EDIT: This should be 635km.]
¹ This is distance on the surface of the orbital sphere, straight-line distance is a bit less. It probably doesn't make much difference.
I assume that would be less expensive than creating larger circuit boards, shipping and packaging.
I know Moore's Law is being repealed, but that's still how new types of electronics work, right?
Making small early batches of anything is more expensive per unit than making a ton of them —- regardless of whether it’s cutting edge tech or a plastic chair.
Starlink sats are low earth orbiting (about 250 miles away). The really high latency sats that people used to use were geosynchronous sats that are parked about 30,000 miles away, and the round trip delay between earth, bird, earth.
Its fantastic, can't wait until this is available where I live. Currently paying $200+ a month for 20Mbps from local wireless company.
2 miles North from here there is AT&T fiber and Comcast available, 5 miles South there is Comcast (150Mbps) but I'm in a small community of homes where only options are satellite or fixed wireless.
Since them most of these networks are still in place, now in the 100 mbit/gbit territory. And while most turned into commercial volcanoes over time, there are still some that work as community organizations to this day.
I wonder if it could improve gaming/video conferencing with people far away.
It suggests they could be lower latency than a great-circle path ground fiber without the satellite interlinks.
The idea of low orbit satellites for internet has been around at least since the late 1990's 
I haven't been able to preorder mine, because we're planning on moving out from the city to a small village next year, but the Starlink website requires a street address.
Our villages are quite primitive, no street names (I think it's cos nobody's thought of it). So, the nearest town where there's street names, is quite far.
I was feeling uneasy about using it as an address, this article sort of cements that concern.
I have 50/50Mbps fiber, but reckon we could still be served by 20 down if needed. Exciting!
Part of the issue is that Starlink cells are going to be very limited in capacity for the foreseeable future: https://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php/2020/09/analyst-probes.... Cowen suggests that Starlink "should eventually be able to serve 485,000 simultaneous data streams in the USA with 100Mbps speeds or 1.5 million streams with over-subscription." That's in late 2026 or 2027 when Starlink has deployed around 12,000 satellites (they're at about 10% of that now). If a bunch of people decide to bring Starlinks to a popular area, the cell for that are simply won't have the bandwidth to support all those users. Imagine people going to Burning Man with lots of Starlinks or bringing their Starlink when they go on vacation. It's not meant to be a portable WiFi hotspot. I'm guessing that portable use might cost more since Starlink has to assume that you might be taking up capacity in places where bandwidth is more scarce.
In terms of preordering, you can order without a street address. Starlink's website says, "Can't find your address? Try a Plus Code with City" (and links to https://support.google.com/maps/answer/7047426?co=GENIE.Plat...).
One thing I would also point out about Starlink is that they only guarantee that you'll be able to use the $500 dish (plus $50 shipping) for 12 months before being forced to replace it. Starlink is new tech and I'm guessing SpaceX wants to be able to upgrade things without maintaining support for less-efficient, older equipment. I don't expect them to force upgrades on people on a whim, but they do spell out that the $500 dish might not be allowed on their network a year after your purchase. I don't think they want to make customers unhappy, but I think they want to make sure they can upgrade their network without getting sued for not supporting expensive customer-purchased equipment forever.
I would guess that if they disconnect your dish from the network, they'll give you a new one for free. I know that isn't what their terms and conditions state, but it would be bad business to do anything else.
They'll hope that most users choose to upgrade first (for more speed or other features).
33% of the manufacturing cost isn't nearly free, in my opinion, but it is definitely a loss leader product.
I deeply hope people aren’t going to those to download OS updates and watch Netflix. Might have some crazies that feel the need to livestream the whole thing, but should be okay if only a handful at a time.
Then those who abuse the data get slow service and nobody else.
That is exactly why I would be interested in it. :) Not just Burning Man, but other events. We do special event medical and having some reliable roving internet access like Starlink would be absolutely magical for us.
It sounds like they don't support a roaming base station for now. From the FAQ: https://www.starlink.com/faq
Can I travel with Starlink, or move it to a different address?
Starlink satellites are scheduled to send internet down to all users within a designated area on the ground. This designated area is referred to as a cell.
Your Starlink is assigned to a single cell. If you move your Starlink outside of its assigned cell, a satellite will not be scheduled to serve your Starlink and you will not receive internet. This is constrained by geometry and is not arbitrary geofencing.
Sounds like some sort of authorization comes down from the satellite, and they don't want to have to push all authorizations from all satellites. Which is odd for a full duplex service. Searching around google suggests a "cell" is roughly a 4.5 mile radius circle, and you probably aren't in the center. So movement would be pretty restricted.
Find the place on Google Maps, copy the plus code.
Rather than entering lat/lon coords... except did you get the sign right, or maybe you flipped lat/lon, or got a significant digit out.
There comes a time when a format has so many confusable variants, it’s best to make a new unambiguous format.
I prefer “three words”. You get three words and they identify a location suitably accurate for navigation. https://what3words.com/
At least the algorithm for plus codes is known and can be reused even if Google decides to drop it in the future.
You appear to be conflating other proprietary systems with this open one.
It's a good start though, I'll try other close plus codes until I get it right. Would still have been better to use coordinates.
Having a field that takes lat and lon has all sorts of ways to enter data either incorrectly, or in an unexpected format - if someone has coordinates from some other source they might be typing it in, rather than copy/pasting.
Also, as others have mentioned - plus codes (or Open Location Codes) are an open standard that can be implemented by anyone under an Apache 2.0 license with a whole bunch of example implementations on github
Probably because a plus code is harder for someone to use with non-Google services and open source map tools
Wow, he's right about the shape of the router.
It also looks like it forces the ethernet cable in front if you want to be able to see the LED, and the cable itself is pointed downward: https://preview.redd.it/42rc9fkqwnw51.jpg?width=960&crop=sma...
I suppose that's a minor nit, given what Starlink delivers, though. I'm curious how practical it might be for on-board aircraft wi-fi. That's a space that could use a leap in bandwidth/tech, as FAA certification makes it difficult to keep equipment current. I'm curious if tracking is hard since the satellites and the "ground station" are both moving around...the aircraft on all axis points.
I'm not sure the image you link is a fair representation of the router. The one he actually shows is SIGNFICANTLY shorter/smaller/wider and honestly while it's similar it's a different shape.
there's some good shots in here of the router removed from its enclosure: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ObCTB8ol3Ng
it doesn't seem much more complicated to me than the PCB of something like a mikrotik hap ac2 ($65), based on simplicity I'd say it's like a $40-50 router BOM, max.
Better this than a blaring blue LED I guess, but it would be nice to just have it easier to see in general. Having a shiny brushed reflective surface to the router (instead of, say, black or pure white) exacerbates the problem.
The router looks 'cool' like the Cybertruck, but could use some refinement physically. The shape also makes it hard to mount on a wall, or even to place it horizontally if the need arises.
Edit: Some reddit posts suggests the Starlink App doesn't work if you don't use the router. But also that the app isn't terribly useful outside of the "obstructions view", which is mostly a one-time need during installation.
E.g. putting echo dots near a ceiling, or little lamps in a spot to prevent tipping by children, for routers to stand, etc.
I like the satisfyingly ‘click’ when things are in place :)
I suspect it'll work well for this scenario. My understanding is that the cruising speed of a plane is relatively slow compared to all the other motion involved (LEO satellites move fast!). The US Air Force is reportedly working with SpaceX to test Starlink in various conditions including in flight https://www.avweb.com/aviation-news/air-force-testing-starli....
Not familiar with Sat gear, but this number seems extremely high to me for just powering an antenna (and some motors occasionally)
Power consumption could probably be a bit lower, but there are limits. Keep in mind that this is a phased array maintaining a relatively high bandwidth and high SNR link with the satellite. This is complicated microwave electronics design, a whole different ball game than old grandpas bragging about how they made a contact with someone across the ocean with 5W on their homebuilt HF radio. Starlink may have also made a conscious decision to make the user terminals "overpowered" so they can use a less sensitive receiver on the satellite, saving SpaceX weight, power usage, construction costs, and launch costs. The cost of more power usage is paid for by the user with an extra penny per month in their electric bill.
For reference, this is an order of magnitude greater than the typical power consumption for existing satellite dishes / 4G modems, which typically operate at around 10W of power consumption.
Is it transmitting anything to the satellite when you are not actually trying to send internet data?
Motors weren't being used during my measurement period either.
The dish gets pretty warm in operation (it was already a warm spring day, so it wasn't trying to de-ice or anything).
Here in Australia, for 100W / hour I'm going to be paying ~ A$250 / year to keep it powered. That's about 160 euro, or 200 usd.
Teardown showing PCB at:
And more detailed RF analysis at
It's actually a whole satellite terminal as well as all the electronics for controlling the phased array. It can operate entirely without the router they give you - plug in a computer, or another router (into the white port on the POE injector), and off you go.
If you're interested in watching a Teardown of Dishy, you can see one here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iOmdQnIlnRo
I am not talking about ordinary cheap consumer grade hughesnet or viasat stuff, but if you were to do the power budget for an idirect x3 modem and a traditional geostationary ku-band VSAT setup with a 20W BUC, the actual AC wall power consumed would be quite a lot more. Just the BUC is going to be 200W.
What I was referring to is the class of VSAT equipment much more costly than a proprietary viasat or hughesnet terminal, which the ordinary consumer will never see, that's capable of doing a dedicated 100/15.
Moreover, comparing a parabolic receiver with a phased array is quite unfair. The amount and complexity of the electronics and processing power required is several orders of magnitude different.