Just curious, what would you have liked to see the U.S. do about Hong Kong? Arguably if anyone was gonna do something it should probably be the British being their agreement was broken. I'm sure the British would have U.S. backing them if they wanted to retaliate.
The U.S. started removing the extra trade agreements from Hong Kong (which arguably is a large part of what made Hong Kong what it is today) and sanctioned individuals in the Chinese government [1]. While this seems to be a "weak" response, I'm not sure what else I would like to see short of getting the military involved.
Given that agreement on Hong Kong independance was set to expire relatively soon, is difficult to justify serious intervention from a cost/ benefit perspective.
The original seisure of Hong Kong was an act of gunboat displomacy, and not exactly an exemplar of justice and law. Consider how its seen in donestic politics in China.
This does not mean that I approve of China's activity, just putting things in perspective.
>if anyone was gonna do something it should probably be the British
Except the UK has much bigger issues ATM like dealing with the social, political and economical fallout of Brexit and Covid-19.
To put it mildly, even if they wanted to, it's tough for them to help put out a fire in a far away village when they have a huge dumpster fire in their own back yard to deal with first.
Building relationships with our allies in the area (TPP), State Department diplomacy, etc. to pressure China effectively. I think TPP was dead regardless of who won, but that State is impaired right now.
It is hard to see what the US should do, but I think the west has a moral obligation to do something (even though it is technically an Anglo-sino agreement).
The UK is trying to welcome people from Hong Kong to the UK (passports left over from before the handover) which could hurt them where it actually matters if lucky.
The 'government' is not an independent actor - its soft power. And its especially soft in US. This whole thing with 'executive power', look at me I am doing things - its all smoke and mirrors.
Obama promised to end wars close down Guantanamo bay and in the ended up keeping up all war campaigns and on top of that he started droning people around the world.
The 'big boys' of the industry have enough fingers in the pie(s) to have their say in things that would affect them.
And independence of Taiwan is definitely one.
> Hong Kong fell without a peep from the U.S.
Because it was mostly Chinese businessmen window to the world, is fall of independent HK really that big of a deal for US or UK?
HK isn't a sovereign nation, Taiwan is. Also, having the US go in would be questionable. Wasn't the "one country, two systems" treaty an agreement between uk and china?
I mean, you can make the same argument with "the earth is flat... depends on who you ask". At least when it comes to the Taiwan (the island) I don't think there's any doubt that the ROC government has a monopoly on violence there. They also have their own military, police force, and collect their own taxes, independent of the PRC.
Best I can recall, it was formed by Nationalists, partly Nazy government that had to flee after like a third Communist uprising when they relised there were more revolting peasants than they had bullets.
Obvious a lot of time has passed, but it's not quite flat earth. It just requires a sence of 'historical justice', however unhelpfull
It's a little bit more complicated than "ask Taiwanese", depends on whether you ask the indigenous people or those coming from mainland ~1949 and their descendants, you may get different answers.
I don't think you mean Native Taiwanese (as in Native Americans) here, so I have to say people are not unanimous about whether "Taiwan" is a sovereign nation.
Except completely reclassifying it to remove the thing that made China want to seize control in the first place: special trade status.
Other than that, what could the current administration do that wasn't screwed up by its predecessors?
My allusion to incompetent government in the U.S. should not be construed as limited to the current administration. The U.S. government has been screwing up a lot of things for a very long time now.
Yes, with many thanks to the Republican party that doesn't believe in governing competently. The party of anti-government has been doing everything it can for decades to get the government to break down and screw up. Instead of improving government, they've been systematically destroying its ability to deal with real problems.
> you guys understand that Hong Kong has and always been part of China, correct? UK gave back a land that wasn't their to keep.
PRC signed an agreement with the UK that set out the legal parameters for this transfer of sovereignty, and PRC is contradicting that agreement with their actions. While it may not legally be the UK's to keep, it was not China's to take in this respect either.
> What can any Western country or US president can do? Do you declare a war with a country over a piece of land that is rightfully their?
Well, in the mean time, the U.S. has terminated the special status of Hong Kong which allowed it to serve as the conduit between the civilized world and a country with essentially no rules that regularly outweigh pure class/political privilege.
The English legal system and liberal order that the UK imposed on Hong Kong was in large part what made them so dazzlingly wealthy and dynamic; and if PRC wants to corrupt that, the result is that the benefits of the system they are corrupting disappear with that system.
Also, it is not always right to honour the law, when dealing with bandits. The CCP does not care for the law, so their assertion of a legal right to Hong Kong (which has not matured anyway) is hypocritical, and can essentially be ignored at no moral hazard.
Furthermore, even if we asserted that the CCP has some agreed legal right to Hong Kong that will mature in some years, I would not agree that it has a moral right to take its people as property.
A true leader would have gotten on the phone with all of his counterparts in all of our allied countries and given notice to China that the new laws to curtail freedoms are a red line. And come up together with a list of collective sanctions (including banking) to threaten China with.
Instead, Trump has spent so much of his time kissing up to Xi to get his help to win the re-election (per Bolton's book). And check out some tweets from 2020:
"Terrific working with President Xi, a man who truly loves his country."
"In particular, on behalf of the American People, I want to thank President Xi!”
"“Just had a long and very good conversation by phone with President Xi of China. He is strong, sharp and powerfully focused on leading the counterattack on the Coronavirus."
"Of his many tweets over the three-day Memorial Day weekend, when the Hong Kong issue was at the top of the news, none was about Hong Kong. During the Hong Kong protests of 2014, Mr. Trump tweeted one of his few clear statements on the plight of the territory: “President Obama should stay out of the Hong Kong protests, we have enough problems in our own country!”"
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/27/opinion/china-hong-kong-l...
> A true leader would have gotten on the phone with all of his counterparts in all of our allied countries and given notice to China that the new laws to curtail freedoms are a red line. And come up together with a list of collective sanctions (including banking) to threaten China with
This is literally, exactly what the White House did.
Can you please point me to an article where Trump called the leaders of all our allies to create a coalition? And also which collective sanctions were created?
The UK and Australia are willing to flap their mouths a bit [1] over it at least, and the UK is much closer to actual sanctions (Australia has, for the time being, not terminated their special trade arrangements with Hong Kong).
Ultimately only the U.S. has taken any leadership on this matter, even if I think it will be inadequate. There is more to be done; but with the U.S. Presidential election looming, one thing that would steel the resolve and buff the resources of PRC assets in American politics would be a major announcement.
Nothing is as simple as the free world bullying the nominally-free world to condemn the only major state in the world conducting a holocaust; because apparently those "allies" don't give a toss.
