The OP and apparently the book following Goffman make a huge leap in stating that selfies somehow give insight in a persons back stage behavior as opposed to front stage behavior. There is no reason given why a conscious act of performance completely controlled by the subject itself is now somehow an insight into back stage.
I would say taking a selfie is a form of front stage behavior, albeit a more egalitarian one.
On the other hand I am someone who thought a selfie-stick was a tool for punishment for people taking selfies at inappropriate moments.
> I would say taking a selfie is a form of front stage behavior, albeit a more egalitarian one.
I think this hinges on whether the person taking the photo is aware of the people around them at that point in time. If they really aren't thinking about them at all, it's essentially "authentic" back-stage behavior. If you don't realize someone is looking in your bathroom window while taking a shower, you probably can't be honestly claimed to be making a social performance in there.
If they are deliberately considering the people around them when taking the photo is part of the audience for their act, then, yes, it's clearly front-stage behavior.
In practice, it is probably some shade of gray between these two extremes. The line between front stage and back stage is always somewhat blurry.
Sorry, there seems to be a disconnect here. Yes the difference between back stage and front stage is a gray-scale. However that was not my point: Making selfies is an act of front stage, not because there might be other people around, but by the mere fact you are making a photo of yourself with the purpose of it being seen by others. The performance is that what we see on the photo, not the conditions it is made under.
The conditions it is under might make it into more of a front stage, but given that the selfie itself is front stage the fact that you are not hiding making it is very hard to see as "authentic" back stage behavior.
People might use selfies to practice (back stage behavior), but you will normally never see those and what they do present is obviously fit for front stage.
Yes you might walk into someone practicing with selfies, or accidentally see some practice selfies, but that in itself does not provide better or more reliable information than any other incidental back stage information like seeing someone in the shower.
Now if your point was that selfies invite us to perform too much and practice too little than we are in agreement.
>The thing about this is that sculptures like these in art history were for the male gaze. Photoshop a phone to it and suddenly she’s seen as vain and conceited. That’s why I’m 100% for selfie culture because apparently men can gawk at women but when we realize how beautiful we are we’re suddenly full of ourselves.
Isn't a third party admiring/honoring someones beauty independently an inherently different act than publicly proposing that ones own beauty should be admired?
agree there can be a double standard, but if there is, it can go both ways
Hmmm this article says a lot without really saying anything. It concludes with implication that we should stop shaming people for posting selfies, without tackling the question "why do people publish selfies in the first place?" or managing to refute the idea that it's narcissistic.
> " that selfies reflect their owners’ personality traits. We identified a number of personality-related cues. For example, emotional positivity predicts agreeableness and open-ness, duckface indicates neuroticism, and private location in the background indicates less conscientiousness. These cues reflect the characteristics of their corresponding personality traits"
Meanwhile the article focused on the Oxford dictionary definition of selfie. I'd argue it's far more interesting to look at the urbandictionary definitions - there are over 70 definitions here - https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Selfie some of which are over 10 years old like this one from 2009...
> A picture taken of yourself that is planned to be uploaded to Facebook, Myspace or any other sort of social networking website. You can usually see the person's arm holding out the camera in which case you can clearly tell that this person does not have any friends to take pictures of them so they resort to Myspace to find internet friends and post pictures of themselves, taken by themselves. A selfie is usually accompanied by a kissy face or the individual looking in a direction that is not towards the camera.
Duck face was called "kissy face" back then apparently. Anyway it's interesting to see how a definition on urbandictionary has evolved over time and I'd argue the urbandictionary is a better gauge of groupthink on a topic like this than the Oxford Dictionary.
Intuitively, I agree with potential shaping factor. But shaming making people civilized - that certainly deserves a citation.
But that's all besides the point. Judging by myself only of course, I seriously doubt people shame others because of the duty to higher purpose (making people civilized).
Shame is a way to impose social norms without violence. To me it is intuitive that shame is a fundamental tool used to organize groups, especially when thinking about the formation of more primitive societies. Not intended to replace a citation, just my two cents.
A sportscaster recently talked about how great public shaming is. Athletes who make dumb tweets learn better if they’re publicly shamed rather than when they are suspended from playing.
That makes sense to me - do something dumb socially, the repercussions should be social as well.
I don't think anyone here implied shaming doesn't have [potentially negative] consequences.
It's a non-violent tool to shape societal or group norms. If you are in a shitty group (e.g. one that shames education), that doesn't change the argument.
Are we talking about whether it's morally defensible to shame someone for doing something irresponsible (like texting and driving) or whether it's actually likely to change their behavior (ie. whether it's good for society).
The latter does not seem to clear cut; there are likely better, more positive ways to change behavior. Shame is more likely to make the person get better at hiding their irresponsible behavior, which is actually counterproductive for society.
I'm still not convinced that shame is ever a useful tool.
> private location in the background indicates less conscientiousness
Wait, I'm struggling with this one. How does showing off a private location (I presume this means someone's home, a bedroom, etc?) indicate that they are less conscientious? The paper says "more conscientious individuals are less likely to reveal their personal space in the background." However, this seems to me like it should be using "cautious" instead of "conscientious". Not being eager to show off your personal space indicates apprehension and carefulness with what you share, I never associated these with conscientiousness.
I always thought it was odd the selfie stick was so hated. It seems like a clever solution for getting a better photo, and it’s not like it bothers anyone else around.
But I feel that’s why people hate it, it’s too clever. Seems to get derided the same way a nerd kid gets beat the fuck up in school.
Taking a selfie requires no preparation. We've all got cameras on our phones, so it's easy enough to do. I'm not really a selfie person, per se, but in the right place and context, I might snap one for posterity.
A tourist walking around with their phone in a selfie stick has put preparation and forethought into the endeavor. Before leaving their hotel to see some wonder of the world, they consciously thought, "I'm going to take a bunch of selfies today so I can post them on social media and gain influence because I'm somebody." This attitude represents everything many people blame for giving rise to the modern overcrowded tourist destination experience.
I'm sure there exceptions, and some people just like pictures with themselves in them, but this is the impression it gives off. You asked why people hate selfie sticks, and this is a likely reason.
> "I'm going to take a bunch of selfies today so I can post them on social media and gain influence because I'm somebody."
There is a huge leap from being prepared to take a slefie at a famous place to this mentality, posting it anywhere on social media, and especially gaining influence or being somebody.
Idk know about it being "so hated" but it is sure enough the object of mockery because it means you actually spent money on it/ bothered to carry it around for the purpose of taking photos of your face, which, without thinking people taking selfies are monsters, I personally don't understand the appeal. I have no interest in taking pictures of myself even more so sharing them. I kinda see it as I see that thing that you're supposed to grab ice cubes with or elaborate beer-bottle openers. Those object kinda of make you feel that some people feel that they don't fully exist if they don't own things.
I think the idea is that you want to be able to look back not just at the places you've been but also at yourself. I think it makes sense. Seeing pictures of myself as a teenager certainly has a different impact than seeing pictures of where I went as a teenager.
When I look at pictures of me when I was younger, I am like "Wow I looked different at the time" for two seconds and then I move on with my life cause it did not learn me anything and I don't really know what to make of it. I guess I havent much interest in my past looks. I have a pretty good idea of who I was at various stages of my life and even if I had not, those would not help much. So I guess I am uninterested in pictures in general.
The pictures aren’t for yourself, they’re for other people. Imagine passing away and no one has any photos of you except for things you took pictures of, which are likely things other people have already taken pictures of anyway. Some may even question if you really were at all those places.
That said, it can be taken to an extreme. Photos of yourself should always try to be as candid as possible, and you shouldn’t be the main subject every time.
I don't really mind people not having photos of me after I am dead. I don't think I will care much by then. We are maybe not just that important and even if you are, a Wikipedia article is a better legacy than any picture of your face.
> I have no interest in taking pictures of myself even more so sharing them
As an old git (45) it seems strange to me that today's youth have known nothing else but a world where sharing pictures of yourself on social media is the norm. It's like its part of the reason for living.
The problem I have with images is that it is so easy to say things with them without having to take responsibility for any speech. Just imagine an Instagram feed but instead of pictures, it would read "I am so much more wealthy than you all" or "Look at me, I am happy" or "Hey! See how many friends I have?!" or "I've got such a beautiful body"? That would be more fun.
But you uttered the word, it is the Norm. And most people only feel comfortable in the Norm. I guess time is better spent attacking the Norm than taking a grudge against all of its followers.
I don't hate the selfie stick due to the users of them. I first heard about a selfie stick when I was on vacation in Rome near the Roman forum. I couldn't walk ten feet without another street vendor trying to convince me to buy a selfie stick. It was constantly aggravating. I wanted to be left alone to enjoy myself, and I was constantly hearing people hawking selfie sticks to me. That made me really dislike the things. (I'll admit to also disliking selfies, probably because when I look at photos, the last thing I want to see in the photo is me.)
They're banned in most theme parks and a lot of other places because they do bother other people. There seems to be a serious overlap of people who spend money on them and a complete lack of awareness for surroundings. I think the main reason initially was people trying to take selfies on things like rollercoasters but the ban spread more from people taking them in other dangerous places and disregarding others around them to get the selfie.
Even in cases where there's no meaningful danger, possession of selfie sticks seem to correlate with narcissistic behavior like standing still in the middle of a crowded thoroughfare.
https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/soy-boy-face
I personally don't believe it's soy, its just the meme. Don't hate the messenger.