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Why might doing this to a Chinese firm feel justified? (I understand this question doesn’t matter to Trump’s true believers.) Finding the vaccine had better to be international teamwork. China is the ground zero in this pandemic. It has a lot offer and lose. I would argue China is a big ally in this case.


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EVERY country puts itself first. International cooperation happens either when they have capacity to spare, or when it is mutually beneficial. Your demonization of China based on its political system is based on stereotypes of what "evil communists/authoritarian states" are in theory, not on what they actually are in practice. China is not comparable to the Soviet Union.

Which words say things in China are still out of control, and why do you trust those words? I have family in China, if things are out of control instead of getting better, I would know it.

You say all of this right after China donated tons of medical equipment and medical teams to Iran and Italy.

I saw how things were in China during the early days of the lockdown, how both people and government cooperated. I will believe my own eyes.

Of course, no government is perfect. Mistakes will be made. And some people are corrupt. But none of that means that throwing the baby out with the bathwater -- being overly cynical and declaring all governments as evil -- is the right answer. Now is the time for both people and governments to learn about what cooperation and good governance is about.


There are countries, like most in the EU, or Canada, or NZ, or JP or South Korea who have their own self-interest but still contribute to the greater cause and global concerns. And there are countries like China and in recent years the US which only care for their own interests. Look just at trade and investment terms - the ones I listed first are very open, the latter totally set rules that prefer own players. The same in any geopolitical concern.


I don't know how much of the claim that those countries are more "altruistic" than China is true. For the sake of argument, let's assume it is true.

I ask you this: must a country be "altruistic"? Is it wrong for a country to look after its own interest?

Clearly, if there interest conflicts with yours, then there is a problem -- but that is a problem regardless of whether they are normally altruistic.

But as long as their interests don't conflict with yours, is it wrong to be "selfish" (or a more charitable interpretation: "to mind one's own business")?

And even if a country helps another not for altruistic reasons, but because there is something to gain, then is there anything wrong with that? Isn't that also called a win-win? Donating and being altruistic is a neutral-win, but couldn't one argue that win-win deals are more sustainable?


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> Then you should know better than anyone here that even your family is strongly incentivized by an Orwellian surveillance system with a social credit score system to lie even to you.

Yeah... No, that's not how it works. Hasn't for 40 years. I was born there.

> I also do not believe that you are arguing in good faith - it is no secret that Chinese astroturfing is all over the internet.

Check my account history and my github profile. I am a real person.

> This is literally the government that is imprisoning millions of ethnic Muslims and at best forcing propaganda down their throats

Okay. This claim is true. But I don't think you are viewing this particular situation from the right angle. Check Kim Iversen: https://youtu.be/Ff4YZBi4UTc Check CGTN: https://youtu.be/h2yMjbB1q24

TLDR: Terrorism. For 20 years. 10% of the population is radicalized and thinks killing others is good. Hundreds of people killed, thousands wounded. In part fueled by poverty, in part fueled by radical education. Something clearly must be done. But what?

The US chose to bomb muslim countries. China chose to force them to go to school to learn ethics, mandarin, and job skills -- what you call "forcing propaganda down their throat".

Now, forcing people to do anything is less than ideal. And they are probably forcing more people than necessary because they can't identify exactly who is radicalized and who isn't. But living in a safe society, where there are no people out to kill you, is ALSO a human right. You can't just ignore this real problem and only focus on the government action part.

I am not saying it is all good but the situation is much more different and nuanced than 'China imprisons millions because China is evil'.

> Do not by swayed so easily by shallow propaganda in the form of aid donations - this does not mean that China is actually recovered

Then shouldn't you be glad that China is over stretching itself? If China is in a bad shape them donating to other countries will destroy China. Never interrupt an enemy who is making a mistake.

> Why is China saber rattling right now about how the US was the origin of the virus[0]?

China isn't claiming the US is definitely the origin. China says this is a possibility. This is based on DNA research of the virus, as well as timing:

1. the US has more mutations of the virus, while China has fewer. Virologists says that this suggests the strain in China is not the original one, and that the ones in US are older. Or something like that: i am not a virologist so i don't fully understand this. Someone who is more knowledge, please fill in.

2. The start of the virus coincided with some military games event where the US army visited Wuhan.

China is not saying the US engineered the virus. It is saying the virus might naturally have started in the US, where it went undetected and brushed away as an abnormally bad flu season.

Now, this is still very much speculation and conspiracy theory-y, I will give you that. But the US CDC isn't exactly doing a good job with investigating the general situation in the US population.

Seeing how the US media talks about China, and seeing how China has traditionally been very defensive in its communications, I don't think it is weird at all for China to one day have become more assertive.


Indeed, obviously China has not stemmed covid. We'll see it come back bigger & more widespread with finger pointing to foreigners.


> Because the CCP, like any authoritarian, communist party, puts itself first

It is the US that is putting itself first in this case though. In addition to that i would claim that pretty much every single government right now is quite authoritarian.




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