It wasn't bullshit. Generally, the merchants and voyagers who reached china were in awe. It was why europeans wanted to get to china in the first place and not the other way around. Even decades after the opium wars, europeans were still in awe even while burning and pillaging.
"... I have done well. The [local] people are very civil, but I think the grandees hate us, as they must after what we did the Palace. You can scarcely imagine the beauty and magnificence of the places we burnt. It made one's heart sore to burn them; in fact, these places were so large, and we were so pressed for time, that we could not plunder them carefully. Quantities of gold ornaments were burnt, considered as brass. It was wretchedly demoralising work for an army. "
Now that the roles are reversed, it's the chinese that are in awe of us. It's why they send so many students, merchants, etc to the US. For a few hundreds years, it was europeans who were as eager to go to china as chinese are now eager to get to the West.
> Chinese Propaganda with their "5000 years old culture".
Yeah, the continuous 5000 years is really a stretch. If they have 5000 years, then might as well say europe has 5000 years or more.
> If you can really talk about a "continuous civilization" for 5000, 3500 or even 2000 years is doubtful.
Even 1000 is doubtful as the mongols conquered china for a while there.
> I am skeptical about the "Chinese Century"
We are 2 decades in and nowhere close to a "Chinese Century". This century will most likely become a multipolar century.
> It wasn't bullshit. Generally, the merchants and voyagers who reached china were in awe.
Well, this was after Rome, and while after the middle ages, still before the industrial revolution.
> It was why europeans wanted to get to china in the first place and not the other way around.
The reason why Europe explored more during that time says more about China than Europe.
"Even decades after the opium wars, europeans were still in awe even while burning and pillaging."
Why should they? Even if they are writings about "superior culture" from that time, we had Roman writers write too about "superior Germanic culture" (bellum germanicum).
By the way, do you know why the Opium war happened? Besides having the inferior technology on the Chinese side? Do you know what the reasons was? It should be a warning to China today.
You pic a time frame, were China was indeed ahead. But I mentioned this time frame myself and it was the only time.
>> The reason why Europe explored more during that time says more about China than Europe.
> No. It says more about Europe than China.
Yes. It basically tells us, that while China was ahead, the culture had big weaknesses. So big, that they left the world for Europe. What happened to Zheng He?
"Yes. China has superior products that europe desired and ran a deficit..."
You are right with the deficit. They did not have superior products, they had unique products (silk, tea, porcelain) and only wanted to export but never buy anything. Not so different from today. They always said, in the arrogance "we don't need anything!". After the military trouble with the west, they realized there was something they should have bought. Technology.
> They did not have superior products, they had unique products (silk, tea, porcelain)
Those products were superior in their respective categories of textiles, beverages and tableware in the sense that wealthy Europeans preferred them over locally made goods.
> they realized there was something they should have bought. Technology.
Already the Ming dynasty had bought Portuguese cannons and were using them very effectively at first against the invading Jurchens. Of course then the Jurchens got their own cannons, conquered all of China and renamed themselves Manchu, establishing the Qing dynasty. They kept buying Western weapons, ships etc. over the following centuries. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_of_the_Qing_dynasty#T...
However, it seems they didn't improve much on the bought technology, or didn't build up high enough production capacity. The British had started experimenting with adding steam engines to their sailboats in time for the First Opium War, which contributed to their defeat of the Chinese fleet (which included bought Western ships). If the Qing had put their energy into building an even larger fleet of steamboats, they might have been able to avoid a repeat of that defeat, but of course I have the benefit of hindsight.
We've banned this account for repeatedly breaking the site guidelines. You can't attack others like this on HN, nor keep posting in the flamewar style.
It wasn't bullshit. Generally, the merchants and voyagers who reached china were in awe. It was why europeans wanted to get to china in the first place and not the other way around. Even decades after the opium wars, europeans were still in awe even while burning and pillaging.
"... I have done well. The [local] people are very civil, but I think the grandees hate us, as they must after what we did the Palace. You can scarcely imagine the beauty and magnificence of the places we burnt. It made one's heart sore to burn them; in fact, these places were so large, and we were so pressed for time, that we could not plunder them carefully. Quantities of gold ornaments were burnt, considered as brass. It was wretchedly demoralising work for an army. "
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Summer_Palace
Now that the roles are reversed, it's the chinese that are in awe of us. It's why they send so many students, merchants, etc to the US. For a few hundreds years, it was europeans who were as eager to go to china as chinese are now eager to get to the West.
> Chinese Propaganda with their "5000 years old culture".
Yeah, the continuous 5000 years is really a stretch. If they have 5000 years, then might as well say europe has 5000 years or more.
> If you can really talk about a "continuous civilization" for 5000, 3500 or even 2000 years is doubtful.
Even 1000 is doubtful as the mongols conquered china for a while there.
> I am skeptical about the "Chinese Century"
We are 2 decades in and nowhere close to a "Chinese Century". This century will most likely become a multipolar century.