Hometown or Startup Hub?

[getp]

My partner and I are starting a web startup in October. We figure we need 6 months max to build the product til launch. Our dilemma: stay in our hometown Amsterdam - really not a startup hub, but we can live here cheaply and have a bit of a network - and go to SV after the product is finished, OR go to SV right away. What do you guys think is the best strategy?

[hugh]

If you already have a cofounder, a product, a network, and a six month plan with enough funding to keep you alive until launch, I can't see any point in moving right now.

Even without the visa issues, moving to another continent takes a lot of time and effort, and will eat up a significant fraction of those six months. (Visa issues have been discussed to death in other threads, but they're likely to be a problem too.) Even just the effort of packing all your stuff, getting on a plane, finding a new place to live and work, and buying all the stuff you need to keep you going in the short term is likely to occupy a lot of your attention for many more months than you might think.

[tomh → hugh]

+1 to the above. Also, who are you selling to? If your primary market is based in the EU, sounds like you should work on getting positive cashflow (i.e. getting out there and selling among your current network) and then think about SV.

[webwright]

Move now (assuming that you're audience/customer base isn't clustered elsewhere AND assuming that you're envisioning funding/VC).

Reasons:

-You'd rather deal with moving/visa issues before your startup launches.

-You'll have smarter startup geeks to talk to here, which will make your product better. Read: http://www.unionsquareventures.com/2008/06/the_spooky_econ.h...

- In the likely event that your startup fails (most do), you'll have had months of building a network which will help you find a cool startup to join or help spin up a new idea.

If you're going the lifestyle biz route, then you don't need funding and you don't need to be in SV (unless your target customers are startups).

[Hoff]

There is life beyond SV.

There is success beyond SV.

There is funding beyond SV.

Ship it.

Figure out if you need to "open a US subsidiary" later.

And besides, "opening a US subsidiary" sounds a whole lot better to the visa-issuing folks and the funding folks and to the folks in whichever US region you might want to move to than does a business in its bootstrap stages.

[yourabi]

Live cheaply while you can (SV is not cheap)

When you are ready to start hiring and getting outside investment move here.

There are also other more local startup hubs, don't forget that last.fm was founded and still is in london. If your idea has wings I don't think a US company would care where the offices are.

[scylla → yourabi]

While expensive by American standards, SV is still cheaper than Amsterdam. Of course, if you're still iving with parents or have a house purchased decades ago, then things are very different.

[terpua]

The former - focus your initial time on building, getting users and feedback. If all is great, you will have a number of options, including going to SV.

Is there a specific reason why you want to go to SV first?

[getp → terpua]

Mostly the advantages of being in a startup hub, and SV is the primus inter pares.

[terpua → getp]

You have email, IM, etc. for that :)

IMHO, where you right now, I don't think that's a significant enough advantage. The costs of moving and living/working in SV is just not worth it at this stage.

[babul]

My $0.02 of going to SV...

+ Networking

+ Networking some more!

+ More chance of random meetings with people who can/will help you.

+ Vibrant community

+ Continuous critique / constructive criticism from learned others (esp in startup community)

+ Motivation through environment

+ Sunshine (and good weather almost all year round)

+ Parties held by other startups and tech companies

+ "Cool" factor of being in SV

+ Change of scene from where you spent most/lots of your life (its good to travel and work in various places)

+ Lots of tech events more accessible in USA

- Losing focus from product development to relocation issues

- Losing time getting to market

- Time & effort to move (find accommodation, offices, visas)

- Initial costs & expenditure (Can spend on product instead)

- Leaving friends & family

- Shifting equipment (servers, printers, monitors, etc) unless hosted online or cheaper to (re)buy/replicate in SV.

...so basically I would say if you are able to go, then go. Also I have never met antone who regretted going but have met several people who have regretted not going.

[spif]

Sorry but to say Amsterdam isn't a startup hub, is just silly. There are many startups here and although not all are massive there are some pretty big ones: Soocial, E-buddy and TomTom just to name a few. I think Amsterdam's ambition (in the PG sense) is 'be more creative' - which fits perfectly with creating a value added service.

I think if you find the right people to network with you'll find there are quite a few cool startups and conversations to be had - that I think will rival SV conversations.

[strlen]

Move when you need to take advantage of something only SV (or other start-up hubs) have to offer. For now, use Amsterdam (cheap, existing network) to your advantage.

[mvrod]

PS. Read Paul Graham's essay - Cities & Ambition

http://www.paulgraham.com/cities.html

[mvrod]

I am also in the very early stages of my startup and after considering the advantages and disadvantages of developing in Europe/India/Latin America/SV I have chosen SV. I know it will not be cheaper than most of the other places but I think the greatest advantage of SV is its the huge number of very talented people with the "startup culture"...

[mynameishere]

This is a no-brainer. Without an extremely compelling reason to move, there's no point, especially when the place you're already at is decent. If you lived in South Dakota, okay, that would be another matter...

Have you ever visited SV? It's a big suburb.