I'm afraid I don't know enough about them and their politics to criticize them. We could discuss about their view of the EU policy but I think it would be another topic for another thread.
Why are you demanding this when I say that a lot of US-citizens have difficulties with reacting to criticism?
My point is the following. We got a saying here. High trees catch a lot of wind. That is true for any US president. Furthermore he sings a different song than the previous president. Those factors alone will cause controversy. We didn't even start about Trump's personality and his controversial election. These are just turmoil on the fire.
Those 2 fellows I mentioned are high trees here in NL but on the international playing field there's much higher ones such as any US president.
I had to read your answer twice to realize you just compared the "Orange Monkey" to Obama. Very funny though the only thing they have in common is that they will have been POTUS.
I think the basic issue with this inability to cope with criticism is more of this national/patriot attitude that many US citizens still have.
They think their country is the single most greatest on earth and that it is their god given right to rule over everything.
In real life countries like China act much smarter as they gain power and influence through superior economic actions (see belt and road project) and not through warmongering and invading other countries (see nearly everything the US does in other countries).
Still it's not easy to find ppl from US who just accept this fact. They instantly start to play their "commy cassette" just like when you try to talk about Russia. It's not about facts anymore and it's highly subjective so a discussion is near to impossible.
About NL:
I'm sorry to say that but NL has nearly no power on earth and they don't act that globally. They didn't elect some *)(/&%/&$% like Trump. The worst NL politician I know of is this Nazi Geert Wilders. I didn't hear him publicly inviting men to "grab women by the pussies" and stuff like that and he has no power over armed forces and stuff like that.
In the end I probably didn't quite understand your view. I said that "many US citizens have a hard time coping with criticism about their country's or leader's politics" and you counter with "all US presidents are high trees".
So could it be that your goal here was to weaken my critics in showing how patriotic the people from NL are as well to tell me that it's normal to defend "your country and leader"? I don't get it.
I'm not trying to weaken your criticism or make you upset, I'm trying to broaden your view. I'm probably -politically- much more aligned with you than it may seem throughout these posts. That being said as understandable as it may seem I suggest we refrain from unnecessary name-calling.
My point [with the high tree saying which also has an apparently has an English version [1]] is that the leader of the US of A is also a leader of the G7/G8 and G20. Plus, the US is the one of the strongest forces in the world. If not the strongest, military speaking, economically speaking as well (AFAIK). Its also a democratic country where people are free to criticize the sitting president. Such factors matter. They count for every US president. The factors (controversy) regarding Trump's personality amplify these factors even more.
Your points about nationalism/patriotism/fascism might also be true (or not). I have no clearly formed opinion on that in combination with this subject. Either way, it'd also be on top of the factors I already described. You could also be patriotic and be against Trump, though, just like you could say what Edward Snowden did was an act of patriotism.
Ok thank you then for pointing that out and I agree that name-calling is unnecessary most of the times. In the case of Trump however I think he has become a figure of a certain way to think and act which is almost meme-esque.
Of course we could instead still use Nixon for attitudes like warmongering but the younger generations don't know him that well anymore and to be honest he was not on the same "level" as Trump is. That's why I like to use Trump to clarify certain points and in this case I just wanted to jokingly warn the user about this kind of criticism because I noticed how US-dominated this platform sometimes is.
Probably, as all of us speak different languages even when we use the same base (like English) to communicate. Many problems just arise because of misunderstandings.
Of course my hypothesis about the nationalism & Co. is based on my experience with US citizens and to my knowledge not scientifically proven (I haven't searched for it and instead just try to do meaningless small-talk when I meet ppl from the US). It's similar with Chinese and Russians - most of them seem to have problems dealing with criticism about their politics. In Germany I know you should restrain yourself from criticizing Israeli politics whereas there is people with whom you can discuss German politics (I mean a real discussion).
What you say is also true I think when Austrians or Germans would stand up to their Gvt. if another Nazi-Party tries to take power it would be very patriotic. They love their countries enough to not let something like that happen again.
Also I am not "that kind of person" who sees words like "nationalist" or "patriot" as statically but instead know that meaning is also part of the construction of a common reality.
I enjoy respectful conversations/discussions like these - you seem to be intelligent and open-minded.
