So much noise about the stand. This is the stand of a $5000 monitor, not just any stand.
Any random piece of plastic on a Porsche is more expensive than on a Ford. That shouldn't be the case in a perfect world, but we don't live in a perfect world.
People have complained for years that Apple is no pro enough. The Mac Pro and XDR display are so pro-level that the vast majority of the WWDC public was not the target demographic either.
Is it too expensive? Yes. Does that matter? No, it's only because it has an Apple badge that we hear about this at all, and people entitlement with Apple is just off the charts.
I'm happy that Apple is aiming at the pro market again. I wish their next step was to release more products for programmers, not just designers.
For example, big 2k 16:10 monitors have been wiped out from the market as manufacturers can't be bothered to produce panels in that aspect ratio, instead of 16:9. More vertical space makes such a difference.
I only know of two old 30 inch models from Dell and NEC that will be soon not possible to purchase. Apple, with their scale, could get custom orders.
I am not sure that 2K 16:10 30" is the sweet spot for users. Five years ago before 4K worked properly then yes, but not now.
4K on 31" works great, plenty of vertical resolution for code plus the pixels are not too small. Anything larger and you will be getting neck ache peering up/down the screen. Or you would have to push the monitor further away than what a regular desk affords, adjusting font sizes accordingly, going into painful letter box territory.
I promise you won't look back if you go 4K on 31", there is no need for a dual monitor setup unless you are editing movies!
But with scaling, are you not simply getting effectively a 16:9 2k but a bit crisper with 4k?
I have tried one of those old 30 inch Dells with 16:10 2560x1600, and it's amazing how much nicer it feels than having just 1440 vertical pixels. The aspect ratio is closer to sqrt(2). I guess that's the difference.
I don't have scaling and all application font sizes are stock. 31" is goldilocks for me, it is about having 2160 pixels good for programming, not smoothed out 'retina', but native pixels!
I have a failed product according to the marketplace - cinema 4096 x 2160 resolution @ 24Hz with extraordinary colour accuracy. Perfect for code, useless for gaming and 60+ Hz video.
I am not sure I would want a 27" 5K monitor, even if it did work properly (mine has an early DisplayPort interface, pre-dating useful standards). If you get a chance to look at a 34" 5K monitor then I reckon that could be what you are looking for. Any bigger and you have to crane your neck or push the monitor further away.
How would you feel about having 1692 vertical pixels instead?
Aspect ratio isn't what matters, it's vertical pixels and vertical inches. A 32 inch 16:9 screen is almost exactly the same height as a 30 inch 16:10 screen.
I don't think either one is a sweet spot, once software is taken into account. Most programs can only competently scale to 1x or 2x, and nothing in between. And for a 4K 31" screen, 2x is too big.
In my opinion, 31 inches, if you were at 1x DPI, is a perfect fit for 1440p. So double the pixels to make a 31" 5K screen and you're in a great spot. Text is a good readable size. Everything is extremely crisp. Compared to a 1920x1200 screen you have 20% more vertical space, and 33% more horizontal.
I’ve been running 4K at 31” for quite a while with Windows.
It’s a sweet spot in the sense that I don’t need scaling. On the other hand this means there’s not so many pixels per inch.
I’m still dreaming of a ”PC” screen which would give me the ”wow” feeling I get using Macbooks with retina displays.
Right now there’s very little choice on market if you want high DPI for desktop. Could not find modern options, only Dell 8K/32” and 4K/24”, both of which are bit old (24” has very wide bezels unlike newer screens).
So you're saying we should look at it proportionally? Because that still makes it look terrible. Nobody else makes their stand cost 20% as much as the screen.
I'm saying we should look at it from the people in that market perspective and the value it brings them or not. The fact that Apple is not including by default is significant. They expect the vast majority of their customer to no need the stand. The option to have a stand at all is probably only for very small shop, like youtube star, and for them they have to see it as buying a 6K monitor, which is probably still a good deal for them as it gives them an affordable alternative to a reference monitor.
In general, it is a specifically designed stand for a monitor targetted at a very small part of an already niche market. So yeah, it's expensive.
I disagree with some of the points there, but that's not what I was posting about. I was disagreeing with the car analogy.
If a car costs 25x as much as a normal car, some random piece of plastic will cost much more than it normally would. But it won't be a much higher percentage of the car's price. The total percentage still has to be 100 at the end of the day, and there are extravagant body/engine/luxury features that eat into it.
This screen is at most 4x the cost of reasonable competition. It is not at all common for products that cost 4x as much to have accessories that cost 20x as much.
Is it because it is a story about Apple that we need to forget everything about how pricing works ?
According to your theory, Ergotron should charge me different prices depending on the price of monitor I'll put on it. Or a restaurant should charge you more if you have skipped a meal that day.
I was just placing limits on how much prices differ! I don't think it's good for them to differ much at all. Aren't you the one defending the price difference here?
Any random piece of plastic on a Porsche is more expensive than on a Ford. That shouldn't be the case in a perfect world, but we don't live in a perfect world.
People have complained for years that Apple is no pro enough. The Mac Pro and XDR display are so pro-level that the vast majority of the WWDC public was not the target demographic either.
Is it too expensive? Yes. Does that matter? No, it's only because it has an Apple badge that we hear about this at all, and people entitlement with Apple is just off the charts.