In the same day, the Very Large Array has its open house. So get to Trinity as early as possible (warning: crowds), see as much as you can, and then head 80 miles west to see the VLA. When I went, the guided tours were given by the Chief Scientist himself!
One of the fascinating parts of VLA is they allocate observing time in 5 minute chunks. When the next time comes, all 27 dishes move in unison to the observing region. Its is like a living creature.
I wouldn’t imagine that every five minutes is allotted to a different observation? If that were the case the duty cycle would be terrible because the dishes would spend an inordinate about of time moving.
They don't change the configuration every 5 minutes and often times you reserve multiple blocks but the dishes are always moving anyway to track whatever its they're looking at.
they only pick them up and move them 4 times a year.
And if you are driving all around NM for atomic turism anyway, you might as well hit the Nuclear Museum in Albuquerque and the Bradbury Science Museum in Los Alamos.
If you're in Las Vegas, the National Atomic Testing Museum is very worth a visit. The last time I was there they had a traveling exhibit of Soviet nuclear propaganda that was fascinating, and there's a lot of info on Trinity and other testing sites. I found the quality of the exhibits to be very high.
One of my favorite museums! It's small, but super well done -- and has a gift shop filled with neat little stuff (like the Fatman + Little boy earrings I bought for my girlfriend (which I thought were way cooler than she did...))
I generally avoid Vegas like the plague, but if I ever go back, that's on the top of the list to visit again.
For anyone considering going to this: There's not much to see. It's basically the short stone obelisk you see in the picture, sitting in an otherwise unremarkable desert. (A fence encloses maybe an acre of surrounding land, but things look the same inside as out.) There's a small one-story home a few miles away where the original test was viewed from that you can go inside, but it's also unremarkable.
I'm really glad I went, but it's more of an intellectual pilgrimage than anything else.
I met a traveler from an antique land
Who said: A vast Obelisk of stone
Stands in the desert... near them, on the sand,
Half sunk, a metal drum lies, whose thickness,
And shape, and awe inspiring scale,
Tell that its sculptor well the intent read
to let survive within these lifeless things,
The force which they had summoned;
And on the pedestal these words appear:
'I am become death, the destroyer of worlds'
Nothing beside remains. Round the decay
Of that colossal wreck, boundless and bare
The glassified green sands stretch far away
Yeah I've also been. It's not one of those 'you have to be there' things. If you happen to be in Albuquerque or Socorro* for some reason: yeah check it out; it's not worth more than an hour drive.
*Was in Socorro myself, honestly not even sure it's worth the drive from Albuquerque unless you're a real atomic bomb fanatic.
It wasn't a positive impression. The town seemed like many other rural towns, especially in New Mexico. Dying. The Burger King was out of lettuce and ketchup, the Wall Mart was... interesting, and the motel I stayed in was pretty terrible. Add to that a wind storm in the middle of the night -- hot wind -- a parking lot with no lighting, and my Chihuahua that needed to go potty at 4am.
To be fair, there is slightly more than that. There will be a series of displays that have information about the Manhattan Project. Normally, there's also some displays with a small amount of trinitite. That said, yes, there's not much there, which was partly why it was a good spot for the test. The Nuclear Museum on Eubank in Albuquerque has far more information about the project in case anyone is interested.
By the way, if you head east on 380 through the Valley of Fires, there was a soda fountain in Carrizozo where the proprietor was a little boy when the test went off. He remembers the blast, which could be heard from the city. I just did a quick check and it may be closed now. He was getting up in age and it'd be sad if he passed.
The series of displays aren't historical objects (with, I guess, the exception of trinitite), they are just a poor method of giving very basic background info. Time would be better spent reading Wikipedia.
I feel like NM is underrated by people who haven't been there. In addition the the attractions you mentioned there are very scenic areas with camping and hiking all over the state. Santa Fe is a great little city right next to an 11,000 ft mountain. Albuquerque is fun too.
I'm currently camping in the mountains close to White Sands. The weather is great and the area is beautiful.
You and OP didn’t mention the Bosque del Apache. It’s a few miles south of Socorro. Every year thousands of birds migrate to there. It’s a beautiful sight to behold in the perfect setting to see for miles into the distance.
NM is definitely underrated, but it’s hard for me to not see some problems of course. It’s got problems from being remote and sparsely populated. It’s a desert with plenty of water issues/disputes. It’s got good and bad history. Plenty of things to see and do that are beautiful to behold or experience. But I’m even more glad it’s not ruined with overpopulation.
There’s a lot of mixed reviews of New Mexico in this thread. I would encourage people to go. If you are a fan of the outdoors of Utah and Colorado, archaeology, and can appreciate the food, I’d highly recommend a road trip. The Gila Wilderness, White Sands, Lincoln National forest, Albuquerque, the various Pueblos, Chaco Canyon, Bandelier, Valles Caldera, Abiquiu, Taos, Santa Fe, Santa Fe National Forest (east part, north of Pecos) are all wonderful places to visit for a day, or more in the case of the forests if you want to camp and hike. I personally haven’t been to Carlsbad Caverns, but it’s probably worth it too, though out of the way.
Even better is to do a giant road trip circuit between the northern parts of New Mexico abd Arizona, and southern parts of Utah and Colorado. You can also easily hit San Juan National
Forest/Mesa Verde and Durango, Moab and Arches/Canyonlands/Capitol Reef, Escalante, Zion, and the Grand Canyon without too much driving between them all.
I posted this comment yesterday in reply to someone else talking about a different state but it applies here too.
If you keep talking up your state and telling people how great it is it will rapidly take a turn for the worse.
Colorado used to be a lot like you describe then it achieved a "brand image" as a vacation spot, after about a generation of people retiring to their vacation spot and people moving there because "it's beautiful, why not" and the state is in a tailspin (being an early adopter on weed probably didn't help but that's beside the point). Now the cost of living is skyrocketing and Denver/Boulder seem to be hell bent on recreating all the bad (bad for people who aren't wealthy, that is) decisions of a certain west coast state.
Economy, people, natural environment, no place can be highly favorable to all three. You can make big bucks and enjoy nature all you want in CA but the rest of your life will be a rat race. You can live a nice life and make good money in some places on the east coast but god help you if you want to get outdoors once in awhile. There are still many highly rural states where you can enjoy nature and have a nice life but you won't be making big bucks there.
I understand that some people may want to drive tourism business in their state. As someone who grew up in a place where tourism is a major industry I believe it will destroy your culture over time. I understand that you're not advocating people move to NM, just saying it's a nice place to visit but that's the first step and I'm not gonna re-write my entire comment to be specific to that case.
I'm not necessarily advocating for the state. The circuit I mentioned is very popular especially among europeans. I would recommend going in September or early October if possible.
I would personally move back to New Mexico, but I wouldn't paint a rosy picture of it. I like the culture, I'm sure it's not everyone's cup of tea. I definitely grew up around a lot of animosity from family members about New Yorkers moving to Rio Rancho, so it's nothing new:
That said, New Mexico has been able to east/west coast gentrification to a minimum (Luckily most people end up going to Phoenix or Vegas instead)
On tourism - tourism is pretty much destroying the world, probably thanks to instagram. The west is susceptible but much of it is protected by virtue that many interesting parts are more than 3 hours from a major domestic or international airport. August is fucked though, partially because of the long European holiday, never do anything in August.
I'm sorry you had to post this, but amusingly my coworker who lived in NM previously, Socorro to be exact (graduated & worked for NM tech), did not have many nice things to say about the town or NM overall. A terse summary of his description would be "If you want your car broken into or stolen and/or house robbed then move to NM."
Though, that's his opinion. I visited with my parents when I was much younger. We went to Taos Valley and I remember it was a really beautiful place. Ski during the day and jump in the pool at night.
Socorro sucks. I'd be jaded if I had to live there. My parents pushed me to go there NM Tech, but I had been going to high school in Utah and would rather go there for college. NM Tech actually said in their brochures at the time (2003) that "students often live on campus or in one of the many affordable trailer parts nearby" or something to that effect.
If it's any indication, I did move back to Albuquerque in 2009 to try to find a job after graduating with a degree in Physics - because I did miss the culture and the place, even though I loved Utah too, but I couldn't make it work at the height of the recession. Utah wasn't much better - I had to take a part time mobile app QA position, but more of my adult friends were there.
There are pure science jobs available at Los Alamos but they can be a bit hard to come by, I would consider moving back to Santa Fe for the right position.
I would also say that Albuquerque does have my favorite weather. Winter shows up but it's not obnoxious, same with summer. September is the best month for a nice trip
I grew up in NM, and it's not necessarily an amazing place to live. But it's a fantastic place to visit! So much amazing wilderness of all kinds, and all kinds of culture.
So first: if you're willing to spend the night in Socorro it's pretty easy to do both. Trinity is about an hour drive and it takes about 2 hours to see it all (it'd be an hour but you have to wait for the shuttle to the house and back) then it's 2.5 to 3 hours to the VLA (don't speed through Magdalena, rez cops love to post up there) so you can be there by early afternoon.
That said. The Trinity site is some plaques, a shack and New Mexico scrub land; the VLA is (if in a close configuration) a dramatic sight, some plaques and New Mexico scrub land AND if it's an open house: the chance pick the brains of operations people.
That's the big difference, open house VLA you can talk to people who's lives are the VLA; Trinity you can talk to people who volunteered to keep tourists from doing anything stupid.
Also Also: feel free to stop by the New Mexico Tech physics department, they might not admit it but they're all willing to shoot the shit about telescopes and bombs at the drop of a hat.
Agreed, there's lots of interesting stuff to do around that part of the country if you can finagle the necessary access. Or at least, there was, back in the 'Star Wars' era.
My first visit to NM was on an ISEF-sponsored trip in 1983, when the science fair was held in Albuquerque. We didn't visit the Trinity site (or at least I didn't), but we got to play with a CO2 laser at Sandia Labs, chill out on the couches encircling the Cray 1 at Kirtland AFB, and watch the NMIMT 'Terminal Effects' group blow some stuff up in the desert. (Un)fortunately the demo was conducted with conventional explosives only, but it was still fun to watch.
There was also a gigantic wooden trestle spanning a canyon in the same area, wrapped in giant Helmholtz coils for testing aircraft under various EMP conditions. I imagine that's all done via simulation these days.
I've been to both sites. When I went to the VLA it was not during an open house. There's more to immediately appreciate at the VLA even if it's to drive up nearby and just look at it with a bit of awe.
The Trinity site was compelling from a historical standpoint but it's really just a patch of desert in a missile range. There was small tent set up with information in addition to the markers. Most of the time for the experience was waiting in a car on a road in the middle of nowhere and speculating about occasional bits of debris in the distance.
I love the VLA. There is a neat little visitor center that you can go to with decorative tiles in the bathroom. Apparently these were popular so people started stealing them, so I heard they sell them in the gift shop.
Other than that the exciting time is when they are moving the dishes (they are on tracks, and they move the dishes closer together / further apart). I'm trying to look up the dates, but I can't find them on their calendar now.
If you're the least bit interested in astronomy, RF technology, or both, it would be a grievous mistake to pass up a chance to tour the VLA. I've been through there twice.
Weird, I feel like I know the place after playing that Infocom adventure 'Trinity' many decades ago. Perhaps one day I will visit the site in person to complete the circle...
I believe they have restored the first Saturday in October date also (suspended a few years after 9-11). However that weekend is also the Albuquerque Balloon Festival. So you have the bonus of viewing this event. But at the same time competing busy travel arrangements with this very popular event.
It's really a very interesting place to visit, if only to see the vast emptiness of the test range. I went last time it was open and it was definitely worth the trip.
Particularly amusing are the ranks of bleachers sitting out in the middle of the desert (so people can watch weapons tests).
You'll have better luck finding Trinitite in Roswell, NM.
That said, I was amused watching parents handing geiger counters to their kids and telling them to run around and yell when the counter started to click more frequently.
When I visited years ago, some folks brought a spectrometer and analyzed some samples. Spoiler: Lots of radioactive elements around. A memorable part of a Radiation Vacation.
It would be environmentally problematic to set off nukes as a tourist attraction, but I actually think that will need to be considered at some point. It won't be long before no one alive has seen a nuclear explosion in person, and I don't think that will be a good thing. The same people who currently deny the Apollo landings, evolution, vaccines, Sandy Hook and so forth will move on to "nuke denial."
They will argue that no such bomb could ever have been made, and that Hiroshima and Nagasaki were false flags, or some bullshit along similar lines. Or worse, they will argue that nukes are just bigger versions of ordinary bombs, perfectly kosher for use in any scenario that would otherwise justify dropping bombs on the enemy of the day.
So an argument could be made that we should light one off in the desert every Fourth of July and sell tickets, just to pre-empt this particular subculture of stupidity.
It doesn't really matter that a tiny minority believes that. There's absolutely no legitimate justified need to reenact nuclear detonations with actual nuclear detonations to prove it ever happened to deranged low IQ skeptics. It's OK that we have a handful of deranged low IQ skeptics who have nonsensical beliefs. It's OK to just ignore them. It's not critical or even marginally important that society spend much time seriously addressing the most fringe of their beliefs.
It doesn't really matter that a tiny minority believes that.
I would've agreed with you until relatively recently. Lately, those people seem to gain more political power over the rest of us in every election.
I'm not that serious about setting off nukes to educate, impress, or otherwise remind them, though. For one thing, there's absolutely no reason to believe it would work.
Fallout is highly controllable, not necessarily that big an issue in an airburst.
Keep in mind that the idea is to avoid setting off even more of them in anger. Right now it's considered deeply taboo to drop a nuclear weapon on an enemy. In another generation, a nuclear conflict will be considered drastic but nothing all that horrific. The generation after that will have fewer inhibitions. The generation after that will have fewer members.
https://public.nrao.edu/event/vla-spring-open-house-2/2019-0...