Hacker News new | past | comments | ask | show | jobs | submit login
LineageOS 16.0 (lineageos.org)
190 points by commoner 22 days ago | hide | past | web | favorite | 107 comments



I'd personally love to see a ROM that focuses less on customizations and adding their own "flavor" to Android, and just attempts to track AOSP as closely as possible while supporting as many devices as possible, so users whose devices are no longer supported by their manufactures (or who just don't like the customizations the manufacturers have made to the UX) can continue enjoying the latest Android improvements in UX & security.

LineageOS is great, and already supports a wide range of devices, but all the features/changes it has accumulated over bare Android means it necessarily has a much harder time porting to the latest versions of Android, and supporting new devices compared a ROM without those customizations.

If a ROM like that already exists, I'd love to hear about it.


It's called AOSP. Community makes AOSP images for a bunch different devices. If you are looking for one image that supports multiple devices look for AOSP treble rom.


If you mean the XDA developers AOSP roms, then they are most definitely NOT pure AOSP - Those guys are incapable of just building a rom from AOSP without adding their own cruft.

Not to mention that the XDA Developers site is impossible to navigate.


Lineage at least feels like a legit project. I can’t feel too sure downloading random ROMs (with closed-source additions) from XDA considering how shady the entire thing feels. 'jcs sums it up nicely: https://mobile.twitter.com/jcs/status/1069346105069092864


I think the forum software (phpBB and its clones) must be partly to blame. I don't think I've ever been to a phpBB-style forum that wasn't like that.

Contrast it with StackOverflow for example.


LineageOS also has proprietary blobs inside.


I have been a programmer/hacker for a long time, but the XDA dev forum is still some kind of obscure place I do not understand.

Also the tone is not very user friendly in general, I understand that when you post a rom you built you don't want to do support, but it can be pretty hostile.


The whole Android ecosystem seems so immensely bloated and convoluted. A repository size of >80GB just to build an embedded OS? Memory requirements are also huge.

The divergence from mainline linux, creating a new HAL interface, so much code and logic duplication which already existed elsewhere as FOSS software.


Same applies to LineageOS. Most images of LineageOS also have patches for driver support etc. Only small number of images are official.


>If a ROM like that already exists, I'd love to hear about it.

If you have a pixel device, this works quite well: https://github.com/dan-v/rattlesnakeos-stack.


OP's question is probably targeting the mid to low end devices, and not an officially supported Google manufactured device. For example, none of my phones (past & present) have ever been supported by any serious rom streams (not counting xda)


That's just how it is. If you care about stuff like this, buy a pixel. If you are short on cash, wait for a year for prices to drop. There is little meaningful difference these days between a new mid/low device and last year's pixel.


OmniROM is another option:

https://www.omnirom.org/

They beat LineageOS to Android 9 Pie by a couple of months, but only for several supported devices.


As logical as your request is, I feel like it is basically an impossible ask. Any ROM with a sufficiently large community to support a large number of devices will also have contributers who want to add their favorite feature. And how will you say no to key device maintainers?

If I'm not mistaken, there are a decent number of small projects that just rebuild AOSP, with little real momentum behind them.



Only pixel support so far. Also:

> Testers, builders, and hosting bandwidth needed.


So, if I wanted to buy a good middle of the road (or even somewhat cheap) phone that has good LineageOS support, what would the community (of LineageOS or HN) recommend?

I looked on /r/LineageOS and found some older posts (a year plus) that claim to give some insight on this. Those might still be fairly accurate, but the same conditions that would cause me to need a guide also mean I wouldn't know if one is still accurate after a year. :/

I would consider putting it on my current phone since it's close to end of life with the shipped Android (Samsung S6, getting slow), but it only seems to support 14.1, which just went unsupported earlier this month.


OnePlus seems to be a favored line for Lineage. You'll notice that the One, a 5(!) year old phone, is still on the initial-adopters list for 16.0. The 3T, two years old, has 6GB ram and still stands with the latest flagships in terms of raw power. The whole line is known for being really easy to put ROMs onto and being a great bang for your buck, and in theory any concerns about Chinese software would go away given that you're putting a new OS on there.


On the other hand, the latest two OnePlus phones (6 and 6T), the older of which was released 9 months ago, still aren't supported.

(Apparently the reason is LineageOS' lack of / in-development state of A/B partition support which would enable safer upgrades.)


I've been using one of z3ntu's builds of Lineage 16.0 on the OP6 for quite a while, and it's worked pretty well for me.

I'm somewhat surprised they aren't including the OP6 in the initial supported devices, but there could be lingering bugs with hardware. (Blurry photos, for instance.)


I have the 6T, still waiting for a stable ROM. But about the photos, they can easily get blurry too with the preinstalled OxygenOS.


Agreed, I'm running LineageOS 15.1 on my OP3 and it's fantastic. Will be upgrading to 16 as soon as it becomes available in the updater app.

(I'm aware that I could flash it manually but I'm far too lazy for that)


Sadly one of their best phones (not in raw perf for sure but overall) the OnePlus X had an issue where flashing has a non-zero random chance of completely bricking the device. Coincidentally happened to mine just as I ordered a replacement screen and had to cancel the order at the last minute.


I can vouch for the One. Nice device. Lineage runs perfect. Now if I could only get aftermarket screens that are tempered...


I loved my 3T as a piece of hardware. Only problem was I couldn't live with Google spyware, and Android without gapps - despite all the wonderful work done by this team - is barely functional as a modern smartphone, sadly.


Unfortunately oneplus only sells accessories for the last and current generations. Really sucks cause my 3 is still working flawlessly but I can't find a good screen protector for it.


I still find (good) screen protectors for my OnePlus 2 on amazon. You don't necessarily need the official ones from OnePlus.


It would help if you disclosed your budget and the name of your preferred wireless carrier.

A used Google Pixel XL in good condition is currently priced around $100-$130 on eBay, and supports all U.S. carriers. This model is on LineageOS 15.1, but should be upgraded to 16.0 once a technical issue is resolved. The Google Pixel XL's PassMark rating is just over 40% higher than that of the Samsung Galaxy S6, and it packs a good camera and an above-average 3,450 mAh battery.

https://www.gsmarena.com/google_pixel_xl-8345.php

https://www.reddit.com/r/LineageOS/comments/at3bf5/_/egzcoxb...

https://www.androidbenchmark.net/device_list.php

https://www.dxomark.com/google-pixel-camera-review-retested-...

If you're looking for something more recent, a used Moto Z2 Force is in the $100-$150 price range, but comes with compromises. Its PassMark score is about twice that of the Galaxy S6, but its camera is weaker than the Pixel XL's and it only has a 2,730 mAh battery. On the other hand, the Moto Z2 is a modular phone and is compatible with a range of Moto Mod accessories, including extended batteries. The Z2 Force already supports LineageOS 16, and the unlocked version works on all U.S. carriers. Its screen is shatterproof, but susceptible to scratches, so a screen protector is highly recommended.

https://www.gsmarena.com/motorola_moto_z2_force-8693.php

https://www.dxomark.com/motorola-moto-z2-force-review-motoro...

https://www.motorola.com/us/moto-mods

OnePlus phones are also good options, but they're mostly limited to GSM carriers. If you're in India, South Korea, or another country with compatible cellular bands, the Xiaomi Pocophone F1 offers excellent value with a fast processor, a good camera, and a large battery.


I'm quite fond of the Moto G or E lines; generally good support, easy to unlock the bootloader, and they're actually pretty decent hardware without being extensive.


Motorola has a nasty habit of leaving out NFC in many variants of their cheaper phones, including U.S. versions of the G6 and G7. This makes those generally unsuitable, at least in the U.S., if you care at all about NFC payments or NFC-based fido auth. It's can't be for market segmentation either, as many non-US variants of the same phones have NFC. The only explanation I can think of is that they're using chips binned with NFC disabled for some reason. (If it's cheaper, why is it mainly US variants that suffer? Wouldn't the cost of supporting multiple variants outweigh whatever trivial cost decrease they get by buying chips with nfc fused off?)


This question came up the other day in #lineageos@freenode. My reading of that is that there are a lot of good options but the most common issue is that they're EOL or becoming EOL.

And this might not be an issue for everyone but fact is that in my own circle of friends I know of three Nexus 5X phones that have died to hw failure. And one that is acting strange.

But I personally still have my old 5x with LineageOS and no issues at all. I love it.

What I would go for is one of the phones that came with stock android 2-3 years ago. Buy it used it perhaps from a re-seller that still has one in stock.

Pixel for example has a really nice feel in my hand and is pretty cheap.


Isn't the 5X in the same line of phones affected by the LG bootloop issues? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LG_smartphone_bootloop_issues#...


Yup, had the same one. I disabled the big cores and it "fixed" it for a long time but then it started looping again. Then did a reflow and it fixed it for a month before it died for good. I was really hoping to keep that phone around as a cross border phone.


I'm trying to work out why the S6 is unsupported. Funnily enough, I just helped a friend put 14.1 on their G920i, but I didn't realise it was so far out of support.

I also don't know why a faulty / for parts S6 still goes for ~$150 here in Australia.


Probably because S6 has Exynos and not Snapdragon SOC.


I purchased a OnePlus 5T (previous gen) about a month back, and I'm extremely happy with it. I splurged a bit, as the 5T comes in at ~$400, but you can find the 3T on Amazon for ~$250.


OnePlus One is a great option for LineageOS. Just a pity you can't buy it new anymore and the later OnePlus model is 1.75x the price.


Pixels, due to their general availability of immediate firmware updates and kernels, are usually by far the friendliest for 3rd partty ROM installation.

Remember that even with LineageOS you're still at the mercy of your OEM to actually release security updates for the vendor layer and Google is still by far the most active when it goes to security fixes.


Older models of either Google or Oneplus phones seem fine, I have been using a Nexus 6p with no problems other than some battery life but that's expected given how long it's been used.


Replace it sooner than later... my 6p's battery lost a lot of life, charging became irratic, then it literally caught fire when the tech was replacing the screen and battery. Now on a Pixel 2 XL (since I couldn't wait for the 6p replacement at the time).


You can go for a Wileyfox or a Motorola G series. My gf had a G2 with Android 6 but it ran LineageOS beautifully up to the latest version without any issue


Wileyfox is in administration, any hardware sold is old stock and not supported.


It's still not out yet, so it won't have LOS support for at least a few months, but this new phone seems value packed:

https://www.androidauthority.com/xiaomi-redmi-note-7-pro-960...

Xiaomi phones have pretty good custom ROM support.


I mentioned it in a different thread, but the RedMi Note 5 lost support after about a year. Do you think the Note 7 will be any different?


What's really a shame is that with each new version of LineageOS a lot of devices are dropped from being supported. I have some perfectly functioning devices (including a 2014 flagship device from Samsung), which will very likely stay stuck on LineageOS 14.1.


the new (and cheap) Xiaomi Note 5 Pro (Whyred) was dropped in October last year after about a year of support. I bought the phone specifically because it was supported. It sucks, but they depend on volunteers to keep the builds happening. There are plenty of unofficial builds now happening but nobody appears to have stepped up for official status.

The phone was originally marketed to India and gets a lot of usage there.

I still think Lineage and this hackable phone are fantastic


Same device here (whyred). If you want an "original" build, you can still build an up-to-date Lineage OS with the latest Android security patches from source from their repo. It is very easy to build it on Fedora or Ubuntu and it doesn't take more than a few minutes to do updated builds once you do the first complete build.

Follow the build instructions: https://wiki.lineageos.org/devices/whyred/build

An additional thing you may have to do (on Fedora at least) is to export LANG=C.

You'll also need a vendor tree for whyred from somewhere, like your own phone or from a public repo such as this: https://github.com/Sweeto143/vendor_xiaomi_whyred/tree/oreo

(Getting the tree from an existing Lineage OS phone per the build instructions did not work for me.) Note that the latest version of whyred vendor tree for Android Oreo is from last year. I suspect this is because Xiaomi has moved on to Android Pie for whyred.

What all this gets for you is a build with the latest Android security patches applied (February 5, 2019 as of today).

Good luck. I can report that it builds and works well and it is straightforward to build it (more so for a programmer).


thank you, this is helpful


I bought the same phone… I think it hasn't even been supported for one year, maybe six months, maybe even less.

I'm willing to build Lineage myself for it when I find the time for it (the amount of stuff you have to download to build an Android distro is completely crazy), but I'm just wondering… why aren't unofficial builds official? Is there anything that makes it difficult, or do people just not care?


I can give you a link to download my build if you want (which is a pristine unofficial build with Android security patches till February 5, 2019), but in the end, it depends on whether you'll trust a binary build from some random person: https://mukund.org/tmp/lineage-15.1-20190214-UNOFFICIAL-whyr...

It is neither difficult nor very slow to build it from source, but it can do with a fast internet link (~fiber speeds) as the build process initially clones from several git repositories (but later syncs just fetch the changes which is very fast). Unfortunately not everyone has access to fiber.

With fiber, the clone and build ought to complete in about a day depending on your machine's performance. I recommend that you build your own (let the initial build run in the background even if it takes more than a day to finish). If you do it once and use the built OS, you'll not search again.


Thanks as lot! But yeah, I'd rather build it myself or at the very least, get a signed binary that's somehow official.

I'm a bit reassured by your words about the build, but the hard part for me is the download as I don't have fiber at home: I've already tried once and given up after a few hours. Compiling should be okay as I've some horsepower :)

Thanks again :)


> With fiber, the clone and build ought to complete in about a day

That's insane btw. Great that you're ok with it, but utterly impractical for me: ADSL is maxed out at 800kbps and due to line noise generally get 80kbps. So I tether, using 4g and 0 to 1 bar of strength. During heavy cloud and rain it drops to hdpsa.


I agree with you.


A lot of that is proper drivers for the next version against Android's mainline. Since phone carriers and vendors often don't do the updates, the hardware is stuck, even for third parties. Sometimes a given chip might be supported if/when a similar hardware phone sees an updated Android, and someone skilled in the community can dump the drivers and port them to something like Lineage or another custom/modern rom.


14.1 is still receiving security updates though, which is more than can be said for the official ROMs from Samsung.


My Nexus 9 is no longer supported, which is a shame.


One thing I've tried to find for a few years but couldn't was a version of Android that focuses on being offline as much as possible. A stable build that allows the installation of APKs and can receive calls but has no wifi and (to the greatest extent possible) is incapable of internet access.

A phone with no wifi and no built in browser would probably suffice, you could then control which apps you can access by which ones you have installed. You've things like that Punkt phone that cost $200 when (presumably) an android mod could achieve the same results.


Just install AFWall+ or NetGuard from F-Droid and set that only whitelisted apps allowed to connect. I don't see a need to create separate mod for this.


I haven't used these, but the problem here being that the user who can set up a whitelist will (presumably) be just as easily able to edit the whitelist.

Along with that I've had issues in the past with whitelists where I disabled something where the IP address wound up being a dependency for something else I was using.


You whitelist apps in those firewalls, not IPs. But I think I saw there some IP lists also.


The easy way is just to turn off both Wi-Fi and mobile data, either by using specific toggles or by switching to airplane mode.

Note that in airplane mode, it will shut off Wi-Fi, but you can turn it back on.


Nah man, you're misunderstanding. I mean a phone in which the OS does not give the user the option to access stuff. This is a self-restraint thing and there's a (small) market right now for phones that can only do basic functionality (i.e. message, call, address book and maybe an alarm), it seems to me that it _should_ be possible to permanently disable wifi on an Android ROM, and potentially (although probably much less likely) make data almost impossible to use.

It's far easier to not be tempted by something you have no immediate means of accessing than something that's a toggle away.


You can do it. I've built custom ROMs from the lineage code base that stripped out Bluetooth, GPS, phone, messaging, etc. It's not that hard, just time consuming.


Cool! Was there any reason you were doing it?

Almost certainly beyond my skill level but outta curiosity, is disabling data (meaning all uses of the network other than fundamental things like texts and calls) something that could be done? I suspect probably not


Could you not just disable wifi on any android phone? Turn it off and keep it off? I do this pretty regularly just to save battery life


Really excited to see this!

My Google-free Android Setup with LineageOS and a Nexus 5X (includes all the apps/Google-alternatives I use):

https://niftylettuce.com/posts/google-free-android-setup/


I did the Google-free Android thing (until yesterday in fact!) with MicroG and while the functionality was fine, the updates never worked properly and I'd have to format each time and reload everything. I enjoyed CopperheadOS until that imploded, and updating was seamless so I know it's not impossible to get right (manual usage of TWRP for an update is one of the funnier jokes of a modern Android variant I think) but I grew weary and moved to Apple. I don't care for them particularly, but I'm happy to (hopefully) not have to wade through Android nonsense every few months and any data I can keep from Google, I'm all for!


Did you use the prebuilt LineageOS for microG?

https://lineage.microg.org/

I've personally never had issues with automatic over-the-air updates using microG's builds, but I haven't tested every supported device.


I would like to see a commercial phone with LineageOS in Europe, that's fairly cheap. But vendors are pushing now for 2000€ phones none needs because they can fold


I have high hopes for cheaper Nokia (HMD) phones. Like 6.1, https://www.gsmarena.com/nokia_6_1-8972.php . LineageOS doesn't seem to support it yet, but aosp does: https://downloads.aospextended.com/PL2


Nokia has no bootloader unlocking, except for the Nokia 8 and the have publicly stated they don't plan to add new devices to the unlock program.

Some older devices are supported through some weird unofficial sites where you have to send in your IMEI, which is obviously shady...

Also they don't update their kernel sources in a timely manner at all. Which makes developing custom ROMs WAY harder..

So sadly, Nokia sucks if you wan't custom ROMs, I ditched my Nokia 8 for a Poco F1 for this reason.


I think OP would like a phone sold with Lineage. That's what I'd like as well: officially supported, on warranty, with guaranteed updates.


https://wileyfox.com/

The older models used Cyanogen and then moved over to Lineagos

Cheap and cheerful.


I put lineageos onto several devices in the past year and they exhibited some mysterious slowness and reduced battery time. I checked everything I could imagine, CPU usage, I/O, but nothing was significant enough to explain this. I love lineageos, what can I do to find out what strains and drains my hardware?


Turn off AudioFX. That was holding wakelocks a bunch on my Moto G4 Play and a Samsung Galaxy Tab S2 9.7 with LineageOS 14.1.

Used BetterBatteryStats[1] to track it down.

[1]: https://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1179809


I have 15.1 on my OP3 right now, I highly recommend the Google camera, it is sooo much better than the lineage stock camera. So much so that I will first investigate if Google camera is already ported to 16 before switching.

Chrome casting my screen never worked sadly so I do feel compelled to upgrade...


I use an app called Manual Camera DLSR which has served me very well. Agreed that the LOS camera app is garbage.


The thing with Google Camera is that is starts an optimization process of a couple of seconds and it lifts the picture quality by a very large degree (nicer colors, slight hdr affect, without overdoing it), is that also with Manual Camera DLSR?


Why I switched out LineageOS:

* privacy - LOS still use Google DNS and servers for internet checking, not sure about telemetry

* app shutdown impossible without devtools

* root access needs to flash another zip archive

It's a paradox: I'm Linux user, but don't like Android.


With root access, you can change the server Android uses for checking internet connectivity:

https://android.stackexchange.com/questions/134963/change-th...

To override the default Google DNS, Cloudflare offers an app for their 1.1.1.1 DNS service. You can also use the VPN of your choice to override the default DNS server. Firefox for Android users have the additional option of setting the DNS over HTTPS server used in the browser.

https://1.1.1.1

https://github.com/schwabe/ics-openvpn

https://www.ghacks.net/2018/04/02/configure-dns-over-https-i...

In the developer options of the Settings app on LineageOS, you can enable "Kill app back button" which kills the foreground app when you long-press the back button. There are also 2 free and open source apps (requiring root access) that may be of interest to you: OS Monitor is a task manager that can kill apps on demand, and Drowser automatically kills the apps of your choice when the screen turns off:

https://f-droid.org/en/packages/com.eolwral.osmonitor/

https://gitlab.com/juanitobananas/drowser

Finally, although you need to flash the su add-on to enable root access, you only have to do it one time, and the add-on persists across updates (until you flash another file to remove it).

https://download.lineageos.org/extras


Thanks for the links, maybe they will help someone. But IMHO time spending for the hacking doesn't worth it.


Android isn't GNU/Linux. That it happens to share a kernel is irrelevant as the SDK completely hides that. It might not share a kernel in the future.


Out of curiosity, did you switch to something that has those things, and if so what is it?


iphone then dumbphone.


iphone, maybe?


Iphones allow flashing zips?


I was using lineage 15 for a while, but when I bought my oneplus 6 I switched to omnirom because they had support for android 9.

Lineage 16 still doesn't seem to support my oneplus 6, I wonder if they will.


How can I get notified once my device is supported?


The LineageOS blog has an RSS feed, but they don't post updates on a regular schedule:

https://lineageos.org/feed.xml

A site called LineageOS Changelog tracks device support, but you'll have to check manually:

https://www.lineageoslog.com/

You can also find the XDA Developers forum for your device, and follow the LineageOS thread for updates:

https://forum.xda-developers.com/

Finally, for real-time updates, you can view the commits to the LineageOS repositories themselves:

https://review.lineageos.org

https://github.com/LineageOS


I find it hard to believe that an open source project doesn't even have a mail list


There's no mailing list, I'm afraid.

https://www.reddit.com/r/LineageOS/comments/9ulb17/is_there_...

https://www.reddit.com/r/LineageOS/comments/an1fo9/whats_hol...

The LineageOS subreddit is another news source, as development team members do comment there.


I've been using v14.1 for about a couple years on a 2013 Samsung. That phone was paperweight but this OS brought it back to life.


Somewhat tangential, but is there a guide to a complete and full list of steps needed to make a lineage-flashed phone physically secure? As in - stopping access to data if someone has unlimited physical access and <$1MM in equipment / funding.

E.g. do I need to put a lock on recovery? Disable ADB? Disable root? Disable developer mode? Enable encryption? etc.


The biggest problem is that in general you need to unlock the bootloader to install custom firmware. On some phones it might be possible to relock the bootloader after you flash the firmware, but I think most phones won't let you do this with a custom firmware.

Once the bootloader is unlocked, anyone with physical access to the phone can reboot the phone into custom software and run arbitrary code, read data etc.

I guess you can still use encryption in case your phone is stolen, but anyone who temporarily gets access to your phone could backdoor it.


Enable encryption. ...I think that's all you need to protect against a stolen device being compromised. It doesn't protect you against evil maid attacks. Basically the same situation as on a laptop that doesn't have secure boot.


Unlimited physical access is a "game over" scenario for phones. Consider supply chain attacks - just pwn the device before the user gets it. You might swap in a digitizer that logs all input (also works later). Etc.


I don't understand the device support - what makes the Galaxy S5 eligible for an upgrade where the S6 is stuck on 14.1?


It could be as simple as one of the maintainers still using the S5 as their primary device (or is being sponsored to support it) but none of them are using an S6. Or there could be a driver issue with the S6. Or something else entirely. The major brands don't really care all that much about unofficial builds like LineageOS and really wish they'd just go away which often makes life more difficult for maintainers. (they should be careful of what they wish for: the momentum to support many of these devices seems to be waning as people move the the up and coming manufacturers) If the S6 is still on 14.1, it's not likely it's going to get 16.0 support... I'm in the same boat with my older Nexus devices.


Most devices have different maintainers, and all of them work on device support at their own pace. At the moment, it looks like the Samsung Galaxy S6 lacks a maintainer:

https://wiki.lineageos.org/devices/zerofltexx/

Maintainers are volunteers, so there's little you can do besides volunteer yourself if you're able to help.


It also depends on what devices people have donated for them to test with. If they don't have an S6 on hand, it's harder to target.


What's the deal with their lack of support for the Pixel 2 and 3?


I have been using LineageOS 14 on my now very old original Nexus 5, and its fantastic, really gave it a new life line after my 6p broke. A little sad that its not supported for v16.


Hopefully with no April Fools antifeatures this time around?


What antifeatures happened in the past?


Last year, LineageOS bundled a prank app that showed a persistent notification for April Fools' Day, but the timing was off:

https://www.androidpolice.com/2018/04/05/dont-freak-lineageo...

They promised to "do better" this year:

https://lineageos.org/An-April-Apology/


Nexus 6 is listed as supported, but the builds page only has 15.1


The builds are running (and some are failing) right now. https://builds.lineageos.org




Applications are open for YC Summer 2019

Guidelines | FAQ | Support | API | Security | Lists | Bookmarklet | Legal | Apply to YC | Contact

Search: