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WP7 will render microSD cards useless on other devices (tomsguide.com)
43 points by Retric on Nov 16, 2010 | hide | past | favorite | 44 comments


Link that doesn't skip the article and anchor down to the comments:

http://www.tomsguide.com/us/microSD-ATT-Windows-Phone-7-Focu...


This is rather embarrassing for Microsoft. They rushed the initial release. Now, they need to really accelerate WP7 development and get these warts fixed, and turn the existing consumer beta testers into actual end users.

That said, even with its warts, WP7 is surprisingly elegant. I've spent quite a bit of time with various WP7 devices and I'm very impressed: 1) It's a good UI experience, and 2) What?! Microsoft designed this?!


How is it embarrassing? WP7 was never claimed to support removable SD card storage. And it doesn't.


Touche.

Well, a partial touche. If they were meant to be non-end user slots, they probably shouldn't look and be accessible like end user slots. (and yes there are warning stickers on some units' slots, but as an example, the fresh-out-of-box Samsung Focus I examined did not have this sticker).

But!

I explored this issue in much more depth and apparently the use of non-end user microSDHC slots allows manufacturers to offer more SKUs easily, without having to solder flash onto boards.

ALSO apparently, this was brought up by the OEMs during the manufacturing phase and Microsoft suggested they ought to glue the cards in place.

So, (touche * 0.5)


It's embarrassing because each and every smartphone on the market that has an accessible SD card slot can deal with removable and expandable storage without requiring special, non-existent, "WP7-compatible" cards and without destroying incompatible cards users insert.


> "has an accessible SD card slot can deal with removable and expandable storage"

And suffers greatly reduced usability as a result.

Let's be honest, average users don't care to decide where everything goes - many won't even know what this means. When one downloads a funny cat picture from the internet, nobody wants to be asked "to internal memory or SD?". Nor do people want to mentally track which files are on what card, nor do they want to break their music library metadata because a song is on a card no longer in the machine.

Yadi yada, the number of ways removable storage (as a primary storage medium, which it is in most smartphones... minimal internal + large removable) harms the user experience is infinite.

What makes WP7 microSD compelling is that it's an upgrade path - which is how people treat removable storage when it comes to smartphones. The fact that the entire experience is unified helps greatly too - your extra capacity is seamless to the user.

If anything, MS is the first smartphone maker to do removable/expandable storage right.

Now, it would be nice to be able to recover a card for normal everyday use after you're done with it, but all in all that's a fairly minor complaint. Like someone else mentioned, you're adding a disk to a RAID, not a gameboy cartridge to ta Game Boy.


> And suffers greatly reduced usability as a result.

How so? I cannot remember a single issue I had with my phones because of it. It's true I was, about once every phone, confronted with a daunting 2-choice menu asking me where would I like my photos and recorded audio to be stored.

> If anything, MS is the first smartphone maker to do removable/expandable storage right.

You are most likely kidding.

> Like someone else mentioned, you're adding a disk to a RAID

And that's a concept my grandma would easily grasp...

No. It's not a usability issue. It's a design flaw that has to be disguised as a feature because they had to launch the product.


- He's not kidding and he may have a point. Upon further analysis, Microsoft's storage scheme seems pretty solid. And they focus on random access speeds when it comes to SD cards, too.

It seems like a welcome contrast to the external storage mess Android is in. I think if it were Apple doing this, it'd be labeled as a brilliant move.

- Your grandma isn't even going to be taking off the battery cover, let alone swapping tiny microSDHC cards.

- Cautiously, I'd say Microsoft might want to keep this scheme going. It certainly seems better than the more drastic measures phones like the iPhone and HP/Palm phones take (soldered on, non-upgradeable storage).


WP7 isn't destroying the cards. It's locking them to the handset.

WP7 doesn't use the card in the SD slot like your computer would. It's more synonymous with adding another disc to your RAID array.

More info: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/2450831

Microsoft/AT&T have done a poor job of messaging this to the users. The fact that AT&T advertised these phones as having "expandable memory" doesn't help any.


I don't personally prefer to subscribe to the "it's the user's fault" school of UI design. While sometimes a problem is the user's fault, it's not an auspicious starting position.

If a UI design presents a slot or button or knob to an inexperienced user, then you should expect it's going to occasionally going to get poked at. Humans are an inquisitive lot, after all.

And if some unique and irrevocable things happen that's also specific to your device, then you're going to lead an inquisitive user to have a problem. Particularly if the slot is commonly used for transferring data in and out of other similar devices.

Most folks don't encounter and don't poke at RAID disk arrays. Most folks do shuffle files and pictures in and out of handhelds and laptops and cameras via SD. If you're aiming for the former audience and your product happens to be bought in droves by the latter (and as is increasingly arising with SOHO and consumer-facing RAID devices, for that matter), you've missed your target product audience, and you're going to have product acceptance problems.

Worse for WP7, this particular case likely arises among the more inquisitive members of your target audience, and this is likely also the same group that can be your early adopters and your best proponents.


Interesting, and it makes a bit of sense, even if it is counterintuitive.

"It creates a single file system that spans the internal storage and the SD card." - Meaning that you don't worry about "shall I store this photo in the phone or in the card" and juggle disk space around after upgrading the memory.


> WP7 isn't destroying the cards. It's locking them to the handset.

Oh... It renders them unusable on any other device but the one you inserted them into...

> Microsoft/AT&T have done a poor job of messaging this to the users.

I think the OEM (was it HTC?) should have placed the SD slot under a metal cover you would have to unscrew before you even saw the card.


How does an SD card get locked to a handset? That doesn't seem like functionality that exists in SD cards.


It's part of the SD specification. See section 4.3.7.1: http://www.sdcard.org/developers/tech/sdcard/pls/Simplified_...

There are WP7 devs that are poking at this problem as well: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=9247202


The iPhone doesn't have removable and expandable storage.

Nonetheless, I consider that to be an essential smartphone feature.

A related note: What is Microsoft thinking coupling the performance of a phone to performance of an SD card?! Architecturally, I can't see a good reason (unless my assumption that the phone has internal storage is actually wrong)


If they are adding the SD card to the storage pool of the phone forming a single filesystem, then a slow SD card will harm the performance of the whole phone.

Why would anyone consider implementing it this way is beyond me.


"It's not a bug, it's a feature". SD slot is to be "hidden" underneath the battery cover and it's not actually intended to be used by end-users, most of them nor will know about the existence of it, nor will care. It was announced a while ago (in a specs for WM7 phones I think). For more tech-savvy people it is indeed strange that there is an SD card there that you can't use as you are used to, but that's a minority, and when one actually think about it a little it comes out as not being that big issue: "MS decided to use SD cards for internal data storage, OK, fine".

More info: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/2450831


Are they covered up by warrantee stickers, etc? If not, then putting them under the battery is a signal to consumers to not remove/exchange when the device is on, like a SIM card. Non-technical people seem pretty adept at changing SIM cards, why would they think memory is any different?

[Yes, yes, removing the SIM while in operation won't hose the typical phone's OS, yada-yada-yada.]


The problem is that some people like AT&T didn't get that, and are telling customers to just "add your own SD card!"


Isn't the card on those phones behind the battery, so you are expected to just buy it once and leave it there forever as added storage?


You as a customer are not expected to replace the card at all. It's intended for the manufacturer.


In at least one case, you can't replace the card without voiding the warranty.

http://www.gadgetvenue.com/dell-venue-pro-wp7-microsd-card-s...


Anything accessible without a screwdriver is generally considered user-upgradeable. A bit of a design faux pas, especially considering the precedent set by Apple in their recent consumer hardware.


Yes, exactly - the phone manufacturers really screwed this up; it was never intended that people would even know that the phone had an SD slot, much less that they would sell it as a feature. Just pretend that the SD card slot doesn't exist.


On my Android phone I have to remove the battery before removing the card. I assume it is so that the card is properly unmounted before I can take it out.


I don't on mine - IIRC the phone shows a stern message if I just pull the card out, but it's not caused any major issues (not that I've been seriously stress testing this!).


As an application developer, I applaud effective rights management. The OEMs should not have exposed the slot, and were cautioned against doing so.


As an end-user, I will remember being treated as a criminal.


Honestly, in most of the WP7 phones the SD card isn't accessible, so you'd never know. Does the locked hard drive on your xbox make you feel like a criminal?

I have mixed feelings about DRM. As a developer I like the protections it offers, but as a user I try to avoid it when I can. I'll freely admit it's not a consistent stance. Color me hypocritical.


> Does the locked hard drive on your xbox make you feel like a criminal?

I don't own an Xbox. And it's different - I don't create content with a game console. I don't even read e-mail on one. I most certainly don't write on one.

A phone is a different beast, much closer to the "general-purposeness" of a computer. On my phone, I browse the web, write e-mail, take pictures and transfer them to various different services. I keep music on it and subscribe and listen to podcasts the phone downloads directly.

It bothers me to see such a device locked down with DRM.

I too write software for a living, but I don't sell software for phones. If I had to, I would probably aim for a low price and treat pirates as a form of promotion.


I wasn't speaking literally about the XBox.

Other approaches would limit the utility of the SD card (in the phone) and needlessly expose to users the difference between "flash" and "SD" storage. This is awkward and counterintuitive for users, who will wonder why they can't install more than x GB of apps on their phone sold with x + y GB of storage (where x is flash and y is SD). Such is the current state of Android.

I'll stop here, but basically, in this case none of the activities you mentioned are hindered (all can be accessed via USB). The DRM simply helps ensure that all storage on the phone can be treated equally as trusted. It allows the OS to assume all storage is the same, and enables it to use all the storage on the phone for all purposes.

Luckily, there are many options in the market, and users can vote with their money :)


Curiously, the only known device that can format the SD cards back to a useable state is the Nokia N8:

https://twitter.com/#!/joshuatopolsky/status/418339383096115...


So, all Nokia has to do is to ensure WP7's success and they will have a steady revenue from the N8 line...


good old noki noknok


There's a thread at xda-developers.com that hints that WP7 might just put a password on the card. If that's the case, one might be able to unlock it with linux' native sdcard drivers. (mmcblk)

http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=840524&...


It serves as a reminder end-users are not Microsoft's clients. Their clients, the ones they gather requirements from, are the telephone manufacturers.


Sometimes you wonder how Microsoft could ever become that successful. But then you take a minute, think again, and understand.


> But then you take a minute, think again, and understand.

It chills your heart, doesn't it?


Okay, who else read that as "Wordperfect 7" and got really confused for a second or two.


The S in SD stands for secure. The technology was to placate media and copyright owners.

As an Android user and developer, I appreciate why Microsoft did this. With Android the SD is treated entirely as a free-for-all, untrusted grab-bag. There are no ACLs enforced on the SD storage.

Android 2.2 finally added the ability to move installed apps to the SD, but only those apps that essentially give up any pretenses of security (meaning extremely few).

In an ideal world if I added a 32GB SD to an 8GB Android device, I would have 40GB of first class storage. In the real world it is nothing of the sort, and instead you have 8GB of first-class storage, and 32GB of steerage.


Actually, Android 2.2 does provide some security measures for applications installed to the SD card. The "Move to SD" feature only moves the signed APK package. The package is encrypted with a randomly-generated key that remains in secure storage: http://android-developers.blogspot.com/2010/07/apps-on-sd-ca...

This is not perfect copy protection (nothing is), but it protects apps against tampering by other apps. But it also means any files outside of the APK cannot be moved completely to the SD card; those files remain in internal storage. This is why apps with native libraries (like Opera Mobile and Google Earth) still take up so much internal storage even when moved to SD.

[The "apps2sd" feature found in some unofficial pre-2.2 ROMs like Cyanogenmod does not provide the same security features. Your criticism is accurate in those cases.]


I think you just coined a brilliant new technical term. We should totally start using it.

Steerage: n. A computer storage pool with more limited characteristics than the device's primary storage, commonly with inferior throughput performance and an inability to store a boot partition or executable software.


This is probably an intentional allusion by ergo98. On ships, "steerage" is the cheapest possible accommodation, which provides a stark contrast to "first-class."


I have no issue with how the OS handles SD cards. But the way it is exposed in some of the hardware is a HUGE mistake.

With that said, MS probably needs to fix this issue at the OS level (and new HW needs to not expose the SD card). Give users the ability to "eject" SD cards, and make them usable in other devices (although of course losing all data).




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