> America is the most powerful nation in the world today not because it has the most number of people, but because it has the best and the brightest, gathered from around the world.
I agree, there is a non-quota limited O visa for temporary workers for the best and brightest [1].
>> The O-1 nonimmigrant visa is for the individual who possesses extraordinary ability in the sciences, arts, education, business, or athletics, or who has a demonstrated record of extraordinary achievement in the motion picture or television industry and has been recognized nationally or internationally for those achievements.
H-1B is also required for jobs that can't be filled but is definitely being abused.
The best and brightest from around the world can ALWAYS get in with no limit with the O visa [2].
>> There is a misconception about the H-1B program that it was designed to allow companies to import workers with unique talents. There has long been a visa program for exactly that purpose. The O (for outstanding) visa program is for importing geniuses and nothing else. Interestingly enough, the O visa program has no quotas.
The H-1B abuse is more a situation where large companies are abusing it to lower labor costs and wages while owning employees. It will never affect the best and brightest from working in the US by getting an O visa though.
> I agree, there is a non-quota limited O visa for temporary workers for the best and brightest
Just saying, the requirements of the O visa are usually very unreasonable.
An application must satisfy 3 of the below requirements:
1. Receipt of nationally or internationally recognized prizes or awards for excellence in the field of endeavor
2. Membership in associations in the field for which classification is sought which require outstanding achievements, as judged by recognized national or international experts in the field
3. Published material in professional or major trade publications, newspapers or other major media about the beneficiary and the beneficiary’s work in the field for which classification is sought
4. Original scientific, scholarly, or business-related contributions of major significance in the field
5. Authorship of scholarly articles in professional journals or other major media in the field for which classification is sought
6. A high salary or other remuneration for services as evidenced by contracts or other reliable evidence
Participation on a panel, or individually, as a judge of the work of others in the same or in a field of specialization allied to that field for which classification is sought
Employment in a critical or essential capacity for organizations and establishments that have a distinguished reputation
Afaik, this would usually put a person in the domain of top PhD student or professor. I doubt any masters/undergrad would be able to qualify for such a requirement. A PhD isn't for everyone, and IMO isn't always positively correlated with intelligence. (in that many of the smartest people have no intention of going into research /academia).
The kind of people from India who would qualify for the O-1 would usually be in the 99.99th percentile. At that point we aren't just talking about the smartest people. These people go beyond that. (at least in CS, where PhDs are very competitive)
In practice these requirements aren’t that hard . I have an O1 visa and I know a few others and none of us are close to a Nobel prize or fields medal .
Yeah like I mentioned, the argument about "best and brightest" isn't really a problem, it is a common point about H-1B but there is always a way in with the O (outstanding) visa.
H-1B is for the pretty good developer or when there are labor shortages of certain skills. There is a market need for it but it is also being abused to lower wages and own people undoubtedly.
I never said H-1B wasn't needed nor am I against immigration. But the argument that with less H-1Bs the best and brightest wouldn't get in is not correct. The O visa are always there for that and a separate line. The H-1B line is a line that is the pretty good and needed extra labor to fill shortages, but again, ripe for abuse. That is why it has quota to begin with, without quotas I have no doubt companies like Oracle would have large percentages of their workers if not all as H-1Bs.
Ultimately H-1B could be expanded and made easier even if companies didn't abuse it. One way to change this is allow H-1Bs to change companies, though I am sure this would be abused by middle man contracting companies as well. So ultimately a quota is the only failsafe for abuse. The problem isn't immigration/temporary workers, it is companies using it to lower wages and that harms all workers domestic and foreign and at a macro level our entire economy.
Side note your items some of them are merged full list (8 where 2-8 are pretty doable with 5-8 even more doable for the truly best and brightest):
> 1. Receipt of nationally or internationally recognized prizes or awards for excellence in the field of endeavor
> 2. Membership in associations in the field for which classification is sought which require outstanding achievements, as judged by recognized national or international experts in the field
> 3. Published material in professional or major trade publications, newspapers or other major media about the beneficiary and the beneficiary’s work in the field for which classification is sought
> 4. Original scientific, scholarly, or business-related contributions of major significance in the field
> 5. Authorship of scholarly articles in professional journals or other major media in the field for which classification is sought
> 6. A high salary or other remuneration for services as evidenced by contracts or other reliable evidence
> 7. Participation on a panel, or individually, as a judge of the work of others in the same or in a field of specialization allied to that field for which classification is sought
> 8. Employment in a critical or essential capacity for organizations and establishments that have a distinguished reputation
>>Yeah like I mentioned, the argument about "best and brightest" isn't really a problem
I think you are being uncharitable to your own cause here.
If you want to pad $1 trillion to your economy, you are going to have to drain a few millions down the lane. And its absolutely worth it. For some paltry cents and nickels you get to be the most powerful, most wealth super power on earth. Starting a few Google like companies absolutely requires getting a good double digit percentage of people, who are likely to try and fail. There is no guaranteed recipe to these things.
Its already a miracle that somebody like Germany, France, UK or even India(Though Bangalore shows a lot of early promise) hasn't set up a SV like economic zone. Then you have to compete with them. As of now all the tax they pay goes into the kitty to pay for social security cheques, space projects and range of other moon shot first world projects.
You are guys currently sitting on the world domination throne. And your biggest debate at this point is debating legalese and getting worked up about local politics. A little a short on vision is what I would say.
> You are guys currently sitting on the world domination throne.
Not really, not the workers. The reason the US is ahead in this is mainly investing, financing, education and credit. I'd also argue America has independence, innovation and disruption embedded in the core, other places squash that via corruption or authoritarian controls.
Nowhere in my statement did I say anything against immigration or temporary workers, I solely blame companies for exploiting it. I like that America attracts people, people want to come and work here for the higher pay and higher quality of life. I'd rather people come here to work for market value not below.
From the OP article, Oracle purposefully abuses the H-1B system to lower wages for not only temporary workers but domestic and immigrant workers as well, to lock them into basically a prison of working just for Oracle at lower wages.
> “These students required work authorization to remain in the United States after graduation,” the Labor Department said in a court filing. “In other words, Oracle overwhelmingly hires workers dependent upon Oracle for sponsorship to remain in the United States. This preference for a workforce that is dependent on Oracle for authorization to work in the United States lends itself to suppression of that workforce’s wages.”
> Of about 500 recent college and university graduates hired into three job categories at Oracle from 2013 to 2016, some 90 percent were Asian, the filing said.
> At the same time, Asians, blacks and women were “systematically underpaid,” according to allegations in the lawsuit, which also claimed that unequal pay cost workers $400 million in lost wages.
> “Industry’s key argument for more cheap H-1B and OPT guest workers is that there’s a shortage of U.S. talent,” Hira said. “That argument completely falls apart in the face of these findings. In fact, the industry is using the visa programs for cheaper guest workers, undercutting U.S. workers, damaging the U.S. talent pipeline, and exacerbating its woeful record on workforce diversity.”
What Oracle is doing is lowering the quality of life for people here, immigrants, and guest workers.
The H-1B system also makes it very hard on small to medium businesses to bring in H-1B due to being locked to one company, allowing them to work for others may solve this and the pay issues.
Right now though the H-1B system is only beneficial to large companies, and most are looking to decrease quality of life or wages. I want even temporary workers to get paid market rate if they take the risks coming here.
What would be your solution to stop companies from abusing the system for the purpose of depressing wages for both domestic and foreign workers?
If you have no solution, understand the companies are the ones breaking this system, not the people seeking opportunity. The employers that abuse H-1B would be happy with a lower quality of life for all, making people more dependent. Noone wants that except the uber wealthy, those are the guys "sitting on the world domination throne". We want people to come here, but if we don't fight for quality of life, the reason people want to come here, people won't want to come here.
I agree, there is a non-quota limited O visa for temporary workers for the best and brightest [1].
>> The O-1 nonimmigrant visa is for the individual who possesses extraordinary ability in the sciences, arts, education, business, or athletics, or who has a demonstrated record of extraordinary achievement in the motion picture or television industry and has been recognized nationally or internationally for those achievements.
H-1B is also required for jobs that can't be filled but is definitely being abused.
The best and brightest from around the world can ALWAYS get in with no limit with the O visa [2].
>> There is a misconception about the H-1B program that it was designed to allow companies to import workers with unique talents. There has long been a visa program for exactly that purpose. The O (for outstanding) visa program is for importing geniuses and nothing else. Interestingly enough, the O visa program has no quotas.
The H-1B abuse is more a situation where large companies are abusing it to lower labor costs and wages while owning employees. It will never affect the best and brightest from working in the US by getting an O visa though.
[1] https://www.uscis.gov/working-united-states/temporary-worker...
[2] https://www.cringely.com/2012/10/23/what-americans-dont-know...