This stubbornness on behalf of the EU will damage both sides economically and thus be corrected at some point when the current EU administration is replaced by a more reasonable one.
The UK could easily stay in the single market by officially canceling brexit. It’s even a unilateral decision. It’s just that you cannot pick the benefits of being a EU member while shedding the obligations. In that regard it’s no different from a good old fashioned British Club.
> It’s just that you cannot pick the benefits of being a EU member while shedding the obligations.
Of course you can, it's a matter of negotiations. UK has/had plenty of exemptions as EU member and Switzerland for example is not part of Schengen but in the single market.
It amazes me how people here think that the EU is somehow the entity that makes up all the rules. It's not, deals are bilateral.
Sure, deals are bilateral. Good luck trying to get the EU to give up one of its core principles to a country that cannot even get its government to agree on a consistent negotiation position.
> Good luck trying to get the EU to give up one of its core principles to a country that cannot even get its government to agree on a consistent negotiation position.
The UK government is far more consistent than the EU currently. Name one important issue where the EU has reached a satisfactory agreement and results. Migration? Social security? EU army? Nope.
But just like the tone of your comment, the EU position on Brexit is governed by arrogance, ideological motives and fear of a chain reaction, not reason. Therefore the result will likely be bad for both sides.
> Name one important issue where the EU has reached a satisfactory agreement and results.
The ability to travel, reside, work anywhere I desire in the EU as a right that I can rely on instead of having to ask for permission. The fact that I could marry another EU citizen from another country without having to ask for permission. That we have no extra paperwork related to that, even with a child. I still remember passport checks at the border.
Last but not least: 75 years of peace in Europe. Making the arch enemies of France and Germany friends.
Not all is good about the EU, it suffers from large deficiencies, but it has also brought great successes.
> The ability to travel, reside, work anywhere I desire in the EU as a right that I can rely on instead of having to ask for permission
This was a founding principle of the EU and has been weakened recently as I'm sure you know. Also, in most countries you have to register and are only allowed to stay 6 months without work. Marrying people from other countries in Europe is not a problem and not an achievement of the EU.
> Last but not least: 75 years of peace in Europe. Making the arch enemies of France and Germany friends.
Here you lost me completely. This kind of revisionism is a real issue for the remain people. It was mostly EU countries who bombed Belgrade in 1999(!). 75 years of peace in Europe is a myth (there were plenty of other conflicts, including the current one in Ukraine!) and where it was peaceful it had nothing to do with the EU. The EU was formed in 1992, for heaven's sake.
I'm sorry for being brutally honest, but "75 years of peace in Europe" is one of these typical pro-EU talking points always brought up by badly informed people who embarrass themselves with it.
Registration is a matter of declaring that you're there. You have to register, only if you're getting employed or applying for benefits...
I can rent an apartment in Warsaw, while officially working in Berlin and never bother telling Polish government that I am a resident there. (FFS! I did that multiple times in various EU countries... Ireland, UK, Netherlands, Denmark, Italy...)
And guess what? Nothing will happen. At worst I'll show my tax statement from Germany and tax authorities will fuck off.
Now I moved to US.... Where I have to ask permission to fucking leave this shithole of a country.
> I can rent an apartment in Warsaw, while officially working in Berlin and never bother telling Polish government that I am a resident there
Good for you, but I "can" sneak into any country of the world and remain there illegally like you. It doesn't mean I'm entitled to and neither are you.
> And guess what? Nothing will happen. At worst I'll show my tax statement from Germany and tax authorities will fuck off.
You are dreaming. Look at the legislation and don't argue with slacking bureaucracy.
> Now I moved to US.... Where I have to ask permission to fucking leave this shithole of a country.
Did anyone force you to? I perfectly understand "leave" voters who want to prevent this kind of migration: people who come for economic reasons but show no respect for the country and its laws.
> Good for you, but I "can" sneak into any country of the world and remain there illegally like you. It doesn't mean I'm entitled to and neither are you.
Fun fact - nowhere have I been illegally. And yep,
But sure... You define illegally however you wish.
> You are dreaming.
Yep... I've done that twice. That's my dreaming.
> Did anyone force you to?
I was lied to. You know Americans love to claim that USA is the greatest. It's not.
And I made slightly more in Europe, than do now.
> Name one important issue where the EU has reached a satisfactory agreement and results.
Whenever someone asks for one single thing, they don't mean it. I predict anything I name will either not be important enough or you will not consider anything less than complete unanimity across the continent to be satisfactory.
But fine, I'll play. Abolition of mobile roaming charges across the EU.
The pallets were standardized in a process that began in 1961, initiated by the UIC. It had nothing to do with the EU, except that its big bureaucratic machine introduced some more regulations.
> But fine, I'll play. Abolition of mobile roaming charges across the EU.
So, ignoring your attempt at preventing the obvious answer with your introductory rhetoric, you honestly believe that roaming charges were a significant issue for the EU? Why didn't you mention banning curved cucumbers instead?
The ban on curved cucumbers is a myth spread by the British tabloids.
They did not ban curved cucumbers, they simply provided rules for classification of fruits and vegetables so that buyers know what they are purchasing.
See: https://blogs.ec.europa.eu/ECintheUK/straight-cucumbers/
> you honestly believe that roaming charges were a significant issue for the EU
For me and the other citizens of the EU who happen to live in another EU country, yes, it was a significant improvement.
Name one important issue where the EU has reached a satisfactory agreement and results.
Free roaming within the EU
Standardization of chargers for phones
Free movement (including right to work and study) within most EU member states, plus I)celand, Norway, Switzerland and Liechtenstein
Passenger rights for air travellers
75 years of peace
I could go on, but get the strong impression that any argument, no matter how persuasive, is just a waste of time, looking at your replies.
Deals are bilateral, but club membership isn't. You wouldn't seriously expect to be in a strong negotiating position with Amazon if you decided you wanted to leave Amazon Prime but retain some of the benefits without having to pay the membership fee, for example.
It sounds like Britain's best days are behind it, but it hasn't come to terms with it yet. "Past performance is no guarantee of future results" ought to be plastered in parliament and at Number 10.
"Of course you can, it's a matter of negotiations."
Since the EU is much larger and has to protect her own interest, there is not much to negotiate. In fact, the deal offered is already pretty good for the UK. The last response of "no further negotiations" from the EU made this pretty clear.
Switzerland for example is not part of Schengen but in the single market.
Uhh, you have that exactly wrong. Switzerland is not part of the single market, but sure as hell part of the Schengen accord.[1]
Source? apart from the link provided my last trip to to Prague. I never needed to provide any id in either direction. And id checks, upon entering or exiting the Schengen area, are pretty damn strict.
The Brexit movement has generally rejected calls for a Norwegian or Swiss "you're in the single market but you have to follow most of the EU rules without having a say in their governance." (Not that the Swiss model in particular was on offer, because the EU is pretty unhappy with the amount of specialness it generates).
"The European Single Market, Internal Market or Common Market is a single market which seeks to guarantee the free movement of goods, capital, services, and labour – the "four freedoms" – within the European Union (EU)."
That labour thing is unrestricted migration. I'm 100% sure that migration is the red line.
So... Yeah! May is proposing to leave EU Single Market.
No, May wants to stay in the single market, the EU is refusing that option.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/single-market...
This stubbornness on behalf of the EU will damage both sides economically and thus be corrected at some point when the current EU administration is replaced by a more reasonable one.