On: The Ripple Effect of Death in a Hotel

[onetimemanytime]

Probably they want to kill themselves a certain second, but as climb the stairs, load the magazine or start unwrapping the Tylenols they change their minds.

(The mind is fickle like that, different people handle life issues differently so I pass no judgment. Personally, I think suicide is somewhat selfish, unless your children, parents /those dependent on you are cared for. But even with material things, they need the person in their life.)

[mikeash → onetimemanytime]

That’s like saying that cancer is somewhat selfish. Don’t metastasize, your family needs you! Mental illness is a disease too.

[onetimemanytime → mikeash]

Maybe at some point they may loose their free will, but that opens the Pandora's box...

With cancer you are never asked of you want it to kill you, the "cells" by itself decide.

[mikeash → onetimemanytime]

I don’t think “free will” is a coherent concept. I’ve never seen a definition that actually makes sense.

There is no “you” besides the cells. Fundamentally, there’s no qualitative difference between some brain cells “deciding” to start replicating without limit, and some brain cells deciding to to swallow a lot of pills.

[Dylan16807 → mikeash]

Does that mean there's no difference between a thinking mass of neurons asking you to remove the brain tumor, vs. the tumor that only expresses "grow"? If you would help that person remove the tumor, you're exposing a qualitative difference between the thinky bits and the not-thinky bits. If you wouldn't, then you're absolutely ridiculous.

[mikeash → Dylan16807]

That qualitative difference comes down to “disease.” I’m not sufficiently well versed in medical philosophy to give a good definition of that, but I know the distinction exists and is useful.

Suicidal tendencies are also disease. If you could identify the cells responsible and the person asked you to remove them, would you? How is that different from a tumor? (And for more fun, consider the cases where a tumor is causing suicidal impulses.)

[mikeash → onetimemanytime]

I say, you’d better hope the police find you before I do.

I assume you’re setting up for one of the standard “gotchas” here, but please try something new instead.

[TeMPOraL → mikeash]

I really dislike this "suicide is the most selfish thing", but I came to appreciate it for what it is - a meme. One of few of this kind society uses to discourage suicides. Others like that include pretty much every religion I've heard of making suicide a grave sin that will prevent you from reaching the desired afterlife.