Ask HN: Can we please ban Dunning–Kruger and related comments from HN?

[dabockster]

I'm getting sick of clicking on an HN thread only to see someone writing off the OP's post and/or observations as a mental effect. The only effect that posts like the Dunning–Kruger effect serve is to subtly insult the original poster and inflate the ego of whoever is writing the comment (in a "you have to be at least as smart and accomplished as me to even understand that I'm insulting you" kind of way).

Seriously people, it's gotten so bad in recent months that the HN community is now using it as an inside joke. If someone from elsewhere, let's say a Google search, saw such a post, it makes us all look like a toxic mess. I find it absolutely infuriating that we, as a community, openly tolerate such behavior. Especially since we supposedly have the blessing of YCombinator and several prominent tech outlets. Is this really the standard that we want to set?

Anyways, ranting aside, how can we improve the dialogue here? Do the mods have any input on this? We can do so much better.

[yesenadam]

Could you give some or a lot of examples of that? (I don't remember seeing that on here; maybe we read different things.) Have people said it to you more than once? Your language ('absolutely infuriating') is puzzlingly strong. You want to ban the mere mention of the thing?! Downvoting isn't enough? Or people just aren't downvoting mentions of D-K enough for your taste?

[dabockster → yesenadam]

> Downvoting isn't enough?

Sorry for coming off strong. But yeah, I've been seeing it at least 2-3 times a week in top comments. It's become frequent enough that it, along with similar subtle insult links to Wikipedia, can change the flow of the thread too easily.

The ban is harsh. However, I do not think a downvote is enough here. The downvote merely hides the bad behavior. It ultimately doesn't stop it, though. What I feel needs to happen is to create a penalty for being a subtle snob in threads. My idea is snobby in itself, I admit that. But we owe it to ourselves and outsiders to reign in our conversations so we can have free and constructive debates without users resorting to name calling and dog whistles.

[tlb]

I agree that most D-K references are tedious and self-aggrandizing, and contribute nothing to the conversation. The best way to handle them (or any dismissive, unsubstantive comment) is to downvote, and never take the bait and respond.

[dabockster → tlb]

Downvoting just hides it, though. It doesn't change the behavior. What I am seeing is that, given the correct thread at the correct time, such a post can be placed more prominently regardless of a downvote. New visitors will see that and immediately be turned away from the community.

We need to send a message that this sort of "sophisticated insulting" will not be tolerated. It adds nothing of value and can throw off entire conversations.

[dang → dabockster]

Behavior change of that order is beyond our or the community's capacity. What you're describing is the reflex reaction that happens when pre-existing associations meet well-established brain mechanisms. It happens with this theme and many others.

The most we can hope for is, as tlb said, to downweight such boring reflexive comments and not feed them. If they end up with negative scores, that may be the best training mechanism we have. Telling people to do better doesn't achieve much; most people won't see the message, most of those who do won't hear it, and most of those won't think it applies to them.