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LOL, one more example of why one should never depend on anything from Google.

developer adoption

Gee, I wonder why? Maybe because they never released a usable write API and were basically just a little less developer-hostile than Twitter?

G+ had a lot of potential, had Google chosen to truly embrace Open Standards, federation, and usable API's. As it is, they shot themselves in the foot by creating JAWG (Just Another Walled Garden).

Anyway, maybe this will just help prod more people to join the Fediverse.




Everyone always says "this always failed because it didn't do X," where X is anything they like.

It's clear that it failed. It's less clear that the reason is necessarily any of the ones you gave. Every dominant social network has been a walled garden, and, contrariwise, every attempt to create a major social network based around federation and open standards has, so far, failed.

Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see one succeed, and who knows, maybe Mastodon will overtake Facebook one day, but I don't see any evidence in the Google+ shutdown that suggests that this is the case.


Mastodon and Diaspora are both horrible names for anything aspiring to be socially popular. The former conveys something lumbering, slow, and now extinct. The latter sounds like a gastrointestinal disease if you don't know what it means, and conjures up images of a group of people being expelled or fleeing if you do.


While it sounds shallow I have to agree. I think your product name is part of the UI and should be as friendly and memorable as possible.


Just makes sense. Marketing to a broader audience is to be a bit shallow.


Also, toots.


Everyone always says "this always failed because it didn't do X," where X is anything they like.

I didn't say "it failed because it didn't do X". They said "... failed to gain developer adoption ....". To that specific point, I contend there is a clear and direct causal link between the decisions they made, and that lack of adoption. Of course I can't prove that in the strictest sense, but it's not hard to see that a lot of (potential) G+ developers kept asking and asking and asking for usable APIs and never got them. Speaking only for myself, as somebody who was initially a G+ fan and might have been inclined to build things on top of G+, I never did so for exactly this reason. Yes,"n=1" and all that, but a lot of other devs were very public with their position on this as well.

Obviously their decision to close it down involved multiple factors, but the lack of developer adoption was specifically called out by Google as one of those factors.


You're missing (or ignoring) a lot of historical context in your analysis. Google spent many years trying to compete with Facebook assuming that open standards were the thing that would win. ActivityStreams and PubSubHubHub are just two examples of federated standards that they built to compete, and that failed.

Google+ came out, if you'll remember, at the time that Page became CEO again and pivoted the company's direction away from standards and more towards product. In the case of social that clearly failed. In the case of Android it did not.


Yeah, I remember that, and I didn't intend my post here to be a detailed "analysis" of the entirety of what happened with G+. I just wanted to respond to one particular point that the author of the Google post made, vis-a-vis "developer adoption".

It would be fun to spend some time doing a more detailed analysis of the whole thing, including all of that historical context, but I don't have the time right now.


Before those two, more than a decade ago, Google also had OpenSocial, with MySpace and others. It was an interesting period of time, if you were there. The project was one of the "failures" that soured Google on having open standards at all costs.


Google+ failed because of Real Names.

It was a catastrophic misjudgement that killed the platform at birth.


Wow, found the 3 people on the Internet who thought Real Names was a good idea.


What? Your reply to your own posting contradicted yourself?


HN has comment karma that only the comment poster can see; presumably he used to have some number of downvotes.


I think he is referring to downvotes on his post.


It doesn't help that half of HN and I guess other communities as well decided to blame Google+ the social network for everything that was bad:

- linking their accounts (yep, bad)

- shuttering Reader (didn't care personally but I really doubt they calculated how much it would cost them in goodwill)

- etc

... and decided to use Google+ the social network as a target for all that frustration.

Google+ was really nice. And I'm gonna miss it.

Twitter? The place where I need to have 5 accounts to avoid spamming someone with things they don't care about?

Facebook? The place that 1.) Tries to make everything everyone puts into it public and 2.) makes large scale data harvesting possible and then say "didn't see that coming" after CA.

I've since been on Whatsapp (until Facebook bought it and destroyed the single reason why I was a walking billboard for it,) and later Telegran (don't like it either and I won't write anything there I cannot comfortably send on a postcard, but at least it is not proven yet that they will mine every ounce of metadata out of my connections and then try to kill me with spam, (including on my 2-factor address like Facebook will).

Mastodon? I don't know. Haven't tried yet. It might be brilliant but when I first heard about it it was presented as a twitter thingy and twitter is one of the more useless services I have a relationship with (of course, this is personal, for everyone who likes twitter that is more power to them I guess.)


People blame Google+ for that because Google branded all of that as Google+. At the time, Google+ invaded and occupied almost all Google properties, including YouTube (which was independent enough to resist part), Blogger (which resisted some), Reader (destroyed solely to remove Google+ competition), Hangouts, even Google OAuth


Yep. I guess that is my point.

That doesn't make prevent the social network with the same name from being good though, although ironically the fact that it never became as popular as Facebook might have been part of why it stayed so nice for so long.


> never depend on anything from Google

They're shutting it down precisely because no one was depending on it. How would anyone depend on a social network without any users?


There can be death spiral here, though.

  Them: "We're shutting down X because too few people use it. Also, announcing Y!"
  Users: "I'm not using Y. You'll probably shut it down."
  [months pass] 
  Them: "We're shutting down Y because too few people use it."
The brand recognition that they hope will make Y successful might actually work against it.


Google's chat strategy in a nutshell


They're shutting it down precisely because no one was depending on it. How would anyone depend on a social network without any users?

It did have users. I have no idea the exact number, and clearly it wasn't as many as Facebook, but it wasn't the ghost town people always made it out to be. Some of the Communities were actually quite active.


https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-45792349

> "The consumer version of Google+ currently has low usage and engagement: 90% of Google+ user sessions are less than five seconds."

While i'm sure power law applies, 5 seconds is a hilariously low amount of engagement for the 90%


5 seconds is literally "I clicked the wrong link from Gmail."


Yeah, I think those stats are polluted by Google's own misguided attempts to integrate it with everything.

For active users, Google+ is basically the hub from which they strike out to the rest of the Web.


For one thing, it was known as the best RPG community on the Web. It was also very popular with photographers, I believe.


Where are these Communities, exactly?


In my case, many old school RPG communities are active on Google+. I think its anti-social nature is a feature not a bug.


They're niche, often private, but they do exist.

Their only advantage to Facebook groups was more natural (temporal, not recommended) sorting of data.


Photography. Always lots of nice photos.

Some Linux kernel devs IIRC (I do not hang there).

Some local people.

One user I followed who was very into clean energy solutions.

Gardening (vegetables, chilies, general).

Ham radio.

The thing I never saw on Google+ was politics (I guess it is there but I never looked for it and never found it : )


There are a lot of RPG communities, and a lot of roleplayers and RPG designers who don't even use Communities because G+ already is a community. Communities are a later addition, and G+ works fine without them.


It's widely used by various Open Simulator related communities, also by various groups of Ingress players.


"No one" at Google scale might actually be quite a few people...?


That's the tragedy. It's a business that became one of the richest companies in the world in a few years, obtaining massive capital looking for investments along the way. It then holds all those investments (of money or time or intelligence) to the same standard of success and failure.


No. We use a small part of the people API in production and will have to make changes in our code to avoid breakage. IIRC various points in Google's documentation pointed us to the more modern people API for our desired use case, away from "older" APIs which we will now have to revert back to...


Loads of people are depending on it, in spite of all Google's constant attempts to kill it. It started out as the best social network, and I've gotten to know tons of great people, projects and products there. It has really enriched my life in a way I don't see Facebook or Twitter doing. My Google+ friends and I will definitely miss it.


Is this a joke?

G+ has been a laughingstock in terms of actual usage numbers for years. Nobody is using it. The fact that it was still supported is amazing. Is Google supposed to support failing products until the end of time?


> Nobody is using it.

For a definition of nobody that includes hundreds of millions of active users. Ie, more people than you will ever meet in your lifetime, possibly more than all the people those people will meet in their lifetimes.

No doubt this is a failure for Google.

For comparison, Bing turns over only a twentieth of Google's 60B per year.

Point and laugh if you like, but I'd be happy with considerably less than three billion a year.


Do you mean active users? Because I doubt there's even 10kk there.


By that standard, nobody uses Hacker News.


And, I would expect the uptime, and upkeep to match that, which it does. It's a little forum on a box or two.

If hacker news had 100 people working on it, it would need to do some tricks to stay alive.


I saw a joke on Reddit recently: "Google+ data breach. Up to 50 accounts compromised"


10 year lifespan for failed product is not that bad. How long you think it would have lasted outside Google?


If they made the same decisions as Google? Not long.

But, if they're outside Google, and therefore didn't screw up account merging, real names, search, native apps, etc? Potentially quite a bit longer!




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