Hacker News new | past | comments | ask | show | jobs | submit login

Such risks as "being able to devalue one's currency" ?

A public ledger provides greater protection against money laundering and other criminal activities than a paper currency does.




  A public ledger provides greater protection against 
  money laundering and other criminal activities than a 
  paper currency does
This is not true, especially when it comes to larger amounts.

For example, laundering millions of dollars in cryptocurrencies was easily achieved though services such as ShapeShift which up until recently had no KYC/AML paper trail. If someone wants to launder millions of dollars in physical cash, they would need a business acting as a "front" which could be scrutinized to an audit.

  The Bitcoin network allows anyone to move millions of 
  dollars across the world without any in-person 
  meetings, and without the approval of any financial institutions. 
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/13/technology/bitcoin-russia...

  The Russians also created Bitcoins themselves through 
  the process known as mining, the indictment said. 
This detail is particularly interesting, because if we assume state sponsored spies with a technical understanding of how the internet and the Bitcoin protocol works, that this sort of transaction could be untraceable to the source and so it would be safe to assume their operation was discovered though other forensics outside of blockchain records.


> ... laundering millions of dollars in cryptocurrencies was easily achieved though services such as ShapeShift ...

I'd like to request a source on that. It was my understanding that ShapeShift limited trade sizes, so moving large amounts was difficult, impractical, slow, and exposed to a lot of market value risk.


Any basic search within the Bitcoin community and you'll find many many guides and services for Bitcoin money laundering:

https://old.reddit.com/r/CryptocoinMixing/

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=436467.0;all

https://darknetmarkets.org/a-simple-guide-to-safely-and-effe...

https://ethereum.stackexchange.com/questions/2699/is-there-a...

Vitalik Buterin himself has attempted a money laundering feature into the Ethereum Virtual Machine codebase: https://github.com/ethereum/serpent/blob/develop/examples/ec...

Another famous way to launder money as described in this post from a moderator on BitcoinTalk dated August 22, 2013, 02:32:31 AM [ https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=279249.0 ] , is to give Bitcoin to a mining pool in return for renting their hashpower, in return for freshly minted coins:

https://www.nicehash.com/buy


Please forgive me if I'm being dense, but I was asking for a source to the claim that ShapeShift (in particular, since you singled them out above) could "easily" be used to launder "millions of dollars." After reading through these links, I'm still not convinced. Only one link you listed mentions ShapeShift, which to some credit, suggests a theoretical, many-step, multi-blockchain process for using ShapeShift in such a way.

My understanding still hasn't changed that "moving large amounts [with ShapeShift before AML/KYC] was difficult, impractical, slow, and exposed to a lot of market value risk," but I'm interested in evidence to the contrary.


  Sealioning (also spelled sea-lioning and sea lioning) is 
  a type of trolling or harassment which consists of 
  pursuing people with persistent requests for evidence or 
  repeated questions, while maintaining a pretense of 
  civility so as to discredit their target

ShapeShift was setup without any KYC/AML or login, thus it facilitated automation.

More obviously, the entire ecosystem is designed for money laundering. As evident the previous post, and any rudimentary search will turn up countless results on services or guides on using native wallet apps for Bitcoin or Monereo to mix and launder wallet addresses.


The point of laundering money with a front business is to make it look like it has a legitimate source (e.g. carwash customers). Using Shapeshift just obscured the source of your funds, which is a completely different thing and doesn't help you convince a bank to keep your account open.


They are using the US dollar. They can't devalue it.


Ostensibly if you adopt a digital currency you are no longer using the US dollar.


How are you going to trade with other countries? Are oil exporters going to accept your tropical-coin in exchange for gasoline? I doubt...


They could trade their currency for dollars like every other country which doesn't use dollars locally?


Poor countries get dollars by selling stuff. They can sell their local currency to visitors but no-one else wants it.




Consider applying for YC's Fall 2025 batch! Applications are open till Aug 4

Guidelines | FAQ | Lists | API | Security | Legal | Apply to YC | Contact

Search: