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Launch HN: JetLenses (YC S18) – Lowest Prices on Contact Lenses
80 points by dpandya on Aug 6, 2018 | hide | past | favorite | 70 comments
Hi HN!

I'm Dhaivat and I've been working on JetLenses in the present YC batch. We offer the lowest prices on contact lenses online. On average, each of our customer saves $70 on each order in comparison to buying their contacts from a large online retailer.

It turns out that most of the cost of contacts is just advertising cost and fulfillment overhead. We've built automation software for the fulfillment and prescription verification processes allowing us to cut overhead. We also use statistical models for ad optimization which allow us to cut our customer acquisition costs dramatically and deliver savings to our customers.

I have a technical background (I studied computer science and statistics, interned at Meteor (YC S11) and a quant hedge fund) and my Dad trained as an ophthalmologist. This was the perfect circumstance to realize that this is a large, fairly overlooked space within ecommerce where improved operations through software/data science can have a strong impact.

We're starting with contact lenses and we'll eventually apply our core tech to other prescription medical products with very similar cost structures. At the end of the day, we'd like to make these products cheaper and more easily accessible. Help us out by buying contacts from us or telling your contact-wearing friends about us!

If you wear contacts: We sell the same contacts as your doctor or other retailers, just for a lot less money. Check out our website at beta.jetlenses.com - order from us and save some dough while supporting our run-up to demo day! You can also check out our price comparison tool at https://beta.jetlenses.com/compare_prices - we're the cheapest for most lenses but not all (yet!).

I would love to hear HN's thoughts about this! I'm particularly keen to learn about your experiences buying contact lenses (or even other medical products) and if what we're doing sounds exciting. You can also reach me at dhaivat AT jetlenses.com

Thanks!

Dhaivat

P.S. We currently only ship to addresses in the United States.




ContactLensKing.com is substantially cheaper than JetLenses for the contacts I wear, the Bausch & Lomb Ultras. $43 for a 6 pack on JetLenses, $30 on ContactLensKing:

https://www.jetlenses.com/Ultra-6PK_p_76.html

https://www.contactlensking.com/prodDetail.aspx?ItemGroupCod...

Why is there such a discrepancy in the pricing on these?


Basically: scale and supply chain. On some lenses, where we're on an even playing field, we're able to dramatically beat everyone else on price (e.g. Biofinity Toric XR, MyDay Toric, Proclear Toric XR).

As we grow and we can add more suppliers, we'll be able to have the best prices across the board.


so, you're basically saying "we're the lowest price, except when we're not because of 'unfair' competition on scale and supply chain, but help us gain these advantages and we'll be competitive"

Are you the lowest price on contacts or not?


You claimed "We offer the lowest prices on contact lenses online."

This doesn't seem to be true (by almost 50%!).

If your primary method of competing is on price, you NEED to be the cheapest.


I'm curious as to what percentage of current market are you able to target without the scale and supply chain?


For the acuvue moist for astigmatism daily contacts, JetLenses seems to be 25% cheaper than contactlensking


This is great to hear! We've had a peak sales day thanks to all the HN-directed customers.


I'm in Ukraine now and it seems that I can buy most of the lenses for a fraction of US price. Here's one of the online shops I used last time: https://linza.com.ua/ to convert UAH to USD you can divide by 25 (actually 27, but 25 gives good enough approximation and is easier to divide by). The same lenses I bought with VSP in the US for >= $150 cost here $14/month. And the most expensive monthly supply of daily lenses here costs $38.

Heck. Here's a vending machine in a random gas station in Moscow selling them contact lenses: https://imgur.com/a/mCf9XfB

Going to an eye doctor to check your eyesight can be done in pretty much any contact lens/glasses store on a walk-in basis. Last time my eye exam was free because I happened to buy a pack of lenses (I overpaid for the lenses, though).

The US seriously needs to figure out why the heck are you paying so damn much before you guys consider universal healthcare.


Same is true for most drugs as well. We basically pay for nearly all pharma research and safety studies (through taxes, insurance, and out of pocket) and the rest of the world gets a free ride. It’s one of the reasons why we pay so much. The other being that making the healthcare system more efficient would eliminate (according to the Obama administration) about 3 million jobs, so it’s not politically feasible in the short to medium term.


Also from Europe. Weird that lenses need a prescription in the US.


It isn't like prescription for medication, it's just the numbers that were measured. You don't need a doctor signature to get eyeglasses or contacts (although your insurance company might want an optometrist confirmation that your eyesight isn't perfect).


Good luck actually getting glasses or contacts in the US without a current prescription. I could never find somewhere that would even sell them to me. And it’s a nightmare because my eyes don’t change. I just want the same glasses but without the scratches. Getting them requires finding a doctor whose calculations will match. This usually requires finding the best doctor in town who will take the time to get the right results. Most of them rush.


I just bought a few pairs of glasses for my daughter from Zenni a few weeks back. I needed the numbers, but no proof that they came from any kind of doctor.


Noted! Very cool.

I never even thought of looking in other countries before reading this thread either.


Contact lenses in the USA most certainly need a prescription, they can only be filled by a precise brand match, and it expires after a year.

Any retailer on the web will need a confirmation from a doc or optometrist before filling.


Yeah ... about that.

The US seems to be the only country which treats basic optometry like some kind of rocket science. Where did you guys get that idea that prescription should match so very precisely? Unless you have some rare condition +/- 0.25 dioptre doesn't make much difference. Glasses/contacts are the simplest optical instruments, not a Hubble telescope. Why do you need a specially trained person to dispense a box of contact lenses? If I want a 6-set of monthly -1.25 lenses -- just fucking sell them to me. What the hell do you need to verify with a doctor? I'm not buying a controlled substance or anything. Why did you guys make this transaction more complex than buying a roll of toilet paper? US seems to be the only developed country where I would have a hard time getting a trivial (but necessary) medical thing. Land of the free, my ass.

Also, what's the deal with vision insurance? What are you insuring against? Sudden nearsightedness? I would guess that 99% of VSP members already have a trivially managed chronic condition. And once you get a laser correction there is no point in staying in VSP anymore. So VSP is not really an insurance, but rather some kind of medical union. In theory it should help patients by increasing their collective bargaining power. In practice they seem to be doing the opposite.


These are all great points.

> Where did you guys get that idea that prescription should match so very precisely?

It's often much less about the prescription than the characteristics of the material used for the contact lenses and the measurements of your eye. The base curve and diameter portions of the prescription are used to capture this.

> Why do you need a specially trained person to dispense a box of contact lenses?

There are two reasons. With the wrong set of contact lenses (e.g. off-prescription color contact lenses that people wear on Halloween), you can significantly harm your eyes due to low oxygen permeability in the lenses, lack of fit, etc. Second, the contact lens/glasses prescription renewal process forces people to get an eye checkup done, which can often allow the doctor to identify other problems (e.g. infection, cataract, etc.)

It's subjective whether or not using this as a forcing function is really the "right" thing to do, but it does prevent people from living with undiagnosed issues.

> Also, what's the deal with vision insurance?

As people get older, the likelihood of an eye issue increases dramatically. This depends on your specific policy and what it covers, but there are "insurable" (i.e. low likelihood of occurrence, very high cost) events that can occur with your eyes that your VSP policy may cover. I'm not deeply familiar with this, so I can't comment extensively on it.


Sounds someone convinced you that you need an expert. I do not buy it.


Where did you guys get that idea that prescription should match so very precisely?

A lot of it stems from the fact that different brands and types of contact lenses - even ones with the same name - vary widely in terms of material, oxygen content/permeability, and actual physical dimensions of the lens (the two variables are called the "base curve" and "diameter"). The diopter is just one axis out of 5 or 6.

A given lens in one patient will not always be comfortable or even stay adhered to another one's eyeball. This is why doctors do "fittings" where a trial version is placed and observed for a few minutes or a few days to look for side effects. Lenses actually need to move when you blink, the doctor looks for that as well. Lenses that don't move can deprive your cornea of moisture and oxygen and scar it.

That said, once you're on a lens the matter of having it renewed is a simple function of your annual examination, which is something you should be doing when using contact lenses. If you're one of those people that make 2 week lenses last 6 months at a time and sleep in them, or you are buying them in gas stations, you're risking a lot. I sleep better knowing mine are FDA regulated and recalled if problems or contamination occurs.

I'm not a ophthalmologist, but I've been wearing contacts for nearly 30 years and I respect the process. I'd rather wear 1-days for the rest of my life than undergo LASIK.


Adult human eye is surprisingly uniform in size. The vast majority of adults will be fine with contacts that have BC=8.5 +/- 0.1 and DIA=14.0 +/- 0.2. Many contact lenses are made in exactly one size combination only and everyone seems to be fine with that.

> buying them in gas stations, you're risking a lot.

How? That vending machine sells exactly the same Acuvue lenses that you can buy in US.


There is probably some backwards legislation in place for all contact lenses, and for negative index eyeglass lenses. Source: by elimination based on the fact that every grocery store ever has a rack of positive index eyeglasses called "reading glasses" for long-sighted people who can't focus up close.


The eye isn't supposed to have foreign objects inserted into it. There are legitimate health complications that can be caused by contact lenses that an annual checkup is intended to catch.

The real racket is with the manufacturers who segment the market with different wear regimes. Nobody can come up with an explanation of what differentiates weekly, biweekly, and monthly lenses (daily's do eliminate some unnecessary processing steps). The members of the optik guild will be aghast if one dares to violate the approved regime and wear a lens longer than the box dictates, despite being made of the exact same polymer as a longer duration equivalent.


+1


What kind of competitive advantage do you have compared to other similar companies (e.g. Hubble [1])? Is contact lenses just a race to the bottom in terms of pricing? Other than cost, are there any other elements that differentiate you?

[1] https://www.hubblecontacts.com/


Hubble is going the Warby Parker or Dollar Shave Club route, by vertically integrating manufacturing and branding.

This is just ecommerce automation in a niche vertical. Here, they draw in buyers, they stock inventory, and they fulfill.

Maybe he's able to upgrade and use better software to get rid of 15% of "waste" or maybe he's just eating into his margins and it's too early yet for him to realize, either way he's marketing it as a "savings" passed on to the consumer.

Which doesn't mean it's not interesting. If he can prove that his software mix really is contributing to lowering costs and if the niche doesn't sustain/support the business then most likely he ends up finding another niche or selling access to his software tools to help other ecommerce businesses thrive. E.g. sell shovels in a gold rush.


This is a really important question and @alaskamiller has got the right points other than the selling software to others bit - we're pretty confident the stuff we're building is impactful in our space since we're seeing the results.

In comparison to Hubble: we don't require customers to get a new prescription. Just order from us, save money.

Long term, the process improvement software that we're building as well as the intelligence around actually acquiring customers will be defensible because it is hinged on customer and supplier data. Happy to talk about this more - dhaivat@jetlenses.com.


Do you think this approach could work in other verticals/products other than contact lenses?

I will give your website a try next time I order contacts. Best of luck!


Hubble is super risky as they aren't verifying prescriptions and are also selling old tech (off-patent).


I don't think your claim is true. You are not the lowest price.

I just purchased Biotrue ONEday 90 pack today from EZContacts today.

You say the price is https://imgur.com/a/66wFxvS $69.99 cheapest plan (option 2)

But just today I purchased it from EZContacts for $30.79

https://imgur.com/a/3x4ZzTD

So you'd be best served to Google for the contact lens of your choice and pay for whats the cheapest.

Note: When I tried to re-order from EZContacts, they were charging close to $50. So always start a new search when you are trying to order Contacts online!


We don't claim to be the cheapest on all products yet - there's some bizdev work to do before we can say that.


the title of this post is literally "Lowest Prices on Contact Lenses"

it's reasonable for someone to interpret that as "cheapest price for the contact lenses I wear".


Title of this post !== JetLenses marketing claims


Same price as Costco ($50) for 12pk Acuvue Oasys - thats great. If it went lower I'd switch.

By the way most of your images especially on the homepage seem to be scaled up past their native resolution which makes the site look really fuzzy. Your logo for example is 30px but scaled to 50px. An easy win on landing page design would just be to re-export those images at the right resolution.


We're transitioning to a new website ( which is already live on mobile devices when you go to https://beta.jetlenses.com/ ) . It's probably order of magnitude better and the logo is rendered as an SVG :)


I use Daysoft.com -- way cheaper than these guys or even Hubble


I just got my first batch from https://www.daysoft.com/

$18 shipped for 64 lenses. Got to USA very fast. No prescription required.


As YC company, I would prefer if you could offer me to improve my vision. I have presbyopia which is normal after certain age. Innovate and offer me something better. I don't need another dollar shave club. At least this is how it looks to me. :)


It seems that others are more industrious. Still there is a lot to be done

https://www.reviewofoptometry.com/article/ro0617-can-an-eye-...


I'd like to have metadata about the materials used in the lenses, specifically info about wetting agents. My go-to lens is Acuvue Moist, which has the "Lacreon" wetting agent, aka polyvinylpyrrolidone. When my lens store stopped carrying Moist, I had a hard time figuring out which other brand would have an equivalent gradual moisture release effect, given the jungle of proprietary material names. I'm not saying I'd like to see the chemical formula for each lens (although that would be nice too), but some physical parameters beyond brand name and type of lens would be useful.


That sounds interesting, but if you've been prescribed the Acuvue Moist, you can only purchase the Acuvue Moist as per law. So, although this info would certainly be interesting (and maybe reduce some customer confusion), it wouldn't actually be actionable.


You're US-only, then?

Here in Europe I can buy any contact lens I'd like, but I'm still short on information as to which ones might be better, or why.


FWIW, the biggest pain is the prescription.

My doctor only does 1 year prescriptions, my prescription hasn't changed for 15 years. It's important to get your eyes checked, but every year is a bit nuts. I guess we have some federal organization to thank for that.

I'd love to see you guys figure that problem out. Maybe you could figure out how to ship from out of the US or something. Hell, I'd pay more if I didn't have to go to the doctor every year.


I use Daysoft [1], they're their own brand of contacts, but by the inventor of the daily disposable, and I've used them for years and have been great. They're UK based so all you're required to do to "prove" prescription is check a box. No need to submit anything for prescription (since this isn't required by UK law, there's nothing to stop you buying contacts from anywhere in the UK). They're also <$20 for 30 lenses.

[1] https://www.daysoft.com/


Interesting point. We currently direct a lot of our customers to Opternative (https://www.opternative.com/) to renew their prescription. Medium term, we might look into doing some of this in house.


Check out simplecontacts.com - they do a renewal exam that takes like 2 minutes and they'll sell you contacts too. I checked my brand - Acuvue Daily Moist and it's cheaper there than on Jetlenses


You should check out Opternative. They do eye exams using your computer, though I'm not sure if they're licensed in every state.


<wisper>I just order from the UK</wisper>


Well played. I do the same but in Korea where the price for my brand is about $2 cheaper than JetLenses.

I have my vision checked in the contact store itself (for free) if I need it and then a proper eye exam during my annual physical check up (which is fully subsidized by my employer - a common practice, albeit at varying levels of support).


no prescription needed?


You need a prescription to buy contact lenses in the US? Pills and such makes sense, but what can you do wrong with contacts, apart from having the wrong strength/astigmatism?


Ophthalmologists need money!

Believe it or not, it used to be illegal (in certain US states) to purchase reading glasses 'over the counter'.

That's right, reading glasses were by prescription only.


nope... uk gets something right I guess


> It's important to get your eyes checked, but every year is a bit nuts.

Sounds pretty reasonable to me, and it's not just to update your prescription, it's also to check how healthy your eyes are.


Exactly. A couple of years ago at my yearly eye checkup found a small hole in my retina. Pretty common with near-sighted people. The eyeball is elongated and this stretches the retina a little bit. It's also a fast track to complete blindness in that eye. You might see the hole as distortion in your vision, depending on where in your eye it is, or you may not be able to see it at all. If untreated the whole retina will detach and you are permanently blind in that eye, and there's no treatment. If I hadn't gone to that yearly checkup, there's a good chance I would have been blind in that eye before the next one.

The treatment for the hole in the retina was one of the most awesome procedures I've ever had. The doctor puts on this big headset that completely covers his face, with multiple microscope-type lenses and a visible green laser shooting out the front. Looks like the borg. He holds your eye open and using the visible laser to aim, points at the edge of the hole and activates the IR laser, blap, blap, blap (it actually makes that sound) as it stitches the edge of the hole down. It feels like you're getting poked in the eye hard each time so he has to stop after a few cause your eye freaks out and moves. Wait a few seconds till it settles down and continue. My eye felt like it had been punched hard, but that faded by the end of the day. Repair is still holding coming up on 3 years.

Go to to your annual medical checkups.


Can you elaborate a little bit more on this, what do you optimize, what statistics do you use, etc > We also use statistical models for ad optimization

Thanks!


Sure, I can talk a bit about it.

Essentially, the problem (like all other ad opt. problems) boils down to estimating the expected value of a particular click. This is a particularly challenging/weird problem in this space because unlike other segments of ecommerce, you can't successfully optimize for correlated metrics such as engagement. So, it's a heavily imbalanced problem (i.e. few positive examples, lots of negative examples). In addition to that, the buying characteristics of specific products are heavily related to one another so sales on one affect how we advertise the other. There are a number of other subtleties discovered over time.

Our software produces good bid estimates despite these characteristics.


I have an eye condition that requires me to wear scleral lenses to see normally. They bill insurance over $2200 per pair of lenses. If that price can be brought down, that would be a big deal for me. Is this sort of lens a target for you?


Yes! Please just email me at dhaivat @ jetlenses.com with the specific lenses you need and we can figure out if we can get them for you.


How many numbers (parameters) make up a contact prescription?


It depends on the particular contact lenses - can be anywhere from 1 - 8+.


Congrats on the launch! Can you say more about how you drive your costs down?


What about using VSP?


Hi. If you have out of network benefits in your insurance plan , then we can provide you with the necessary paperwork to make a claim. We can also process HSA/FSA cards at checkout. We aren't an in-network provider for VSP yet, however.


Weird to see that they're not at all cost competitive with most retailers online other than 1800 which is very expensive.

Feels like YC is losing its edge?


Not at all cost competitive for my brand either.

Contacts are a commodity item - whenever I need to reorder contacts I do a lazy 2 min search for the cheapest price online and order there. Customer experience is same everywhere.

Not sure what sort of competitive edge JetLenses has, seems like the idea would've been great in 1995. As a long time contact wearer this market has already been disrupted pretty severely .

For me costs going down fairly steadily since the advent of 1-800-Contacts and the subsequent federal law which put an end to the shenanigans of eye doctors trying to block online fulfillment.


I paid $85.69 including all taxes and fees recently and this site looks like it would be $112 so about 30% higher. I must be missing the innovation here because it seems like just another contacts retailer I’ll have to price compare with when I buy.


Curious if 10 years ago yc would accept a company that just sold contact lenses online.


An interesting question. This [1] suggests that the contact lens market is ~$10B, which is in the realm of YC aspirations. That market is likely to grow as the purchasing-power of people globally continues to grow. Sounds like YC to me.

[1] https://www.grandviewresearch.com/industry-analysis/contact-...


except how is this market captured? Seems to be more supply-chain and scale, or R&D in the actual product. These guys appear to hope for the former, but not sure how they can beat the bigger players other than some vague comments akin to leveraging supplier and customer data. The smaller startups that have built online presence have already focused really well on streamlining the experience, order fulfillment and customer service at low prices; how much margin is left to be the new player and compete on price?


Yeah. I'm also like wtf. The website looks about 10 years old.

I assume the owners have good communication, and persuasion skills. Which is admirable, since I lack them.




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