If he was getting in the way or come uninvited would be one thing, but other than that nothing wrong with an extra option.
Rich and well known people can’t win really. They get criticised for helping and also criticised for not bailing out bad government policy.
Counter-argument: they are already winning, and will continue to win until the day they die. I think the obscenely rich can cope with a small ding to the ego every now and then.
~ Gavin Belson
Personally I don't think Elon was doing this as a PR stunt. I believe he saw it was a very difficult problem with life and death time constraints and he has a bunch of the world's best engineers that build things for extreme environments.
They can, they just need to no interact outside their bubble, make sure they pay their taxes in a fair way (because, you know, the Panama is 100% legal), and do not show up when their not asked to.
Musk is great at building cool toys, but I'm not sure he's great at making humanity better. (hint: we don't need more battery, we don't need to go to Mars, we don't need more cars on the roads, and some people sure don't need a submarine). Now if Elon wants to go in the cave and bring oxygen bottle to those who need it, or explain the kids to never give up, well, that'd be nice.
Can't famous people even help kids stuck in a cave without someone criticizing them for it?
1. Don't press release (or tweet); treat what you are doing with confidentiality.
2. Actually help in a way that's helpful.
Here's a good example http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2018/01/15/george-michael-secretly...
2) How do you know if Musk's help wasn't helpful? Do you work at the rescue site?
Very few of the people criticising Musk had the ability to do anything to help the kids. He is in a rare situation to have the flexibility and resources to make significant financial and/or logistical contributions to literally any cause he notices. In this case, he did it in the most self-aggrandizing way possible, while appearing to make no actual contribution.
True, but I recognize that I don't have any relevant skills or any way to help from the other side of hte pacific.
The main difference is I'm not tweeting about how I'm totally going to solve this, and then getting credit doing pretty much just that.
Instead, he wrongly assumed he knew better.
The toxic nature on the internet is so disgusting and unnecessary.
Where is this coming from? Do you always assume you know everything that other people are doing/not doing or thinking/not thinking?
Expecting and feeling entitled for help to arrive on your terms and conditions.
In fact you seem to have taken this a little tad too far. The observers wish to declare on what terms(moral, ethical or others) the victim and helper need to comply with to work with each other. With the observers themselves contributing nothing to improve the situation at hand.
Yet you write as if you could.
The things he might have done are just examples; there's loads of different scenarios that might be true and we don't know really much about it. I'm not speculating, that's what all the shit talkers in this thread are doing. I'm reserving judgment instead of latching onto a forced narrative created by the media outlets with just a few tiny pieces of information that has leaked out of the rescue effort.
But he was...? https://twitter.com/MabzMagz/status/1014251869760249856
What's your problem?
Cylinders are hardy and portable, and can be carried with one hand through narrow openings. They can be attached to lines, and stored along a prepared route for other divers to use during a single descent.
That begs the question on whether it was more for publicity or it was actually intended to be used.
Would it be realistic to see that submarine in Thailand or on some video camera in an LA pool?
What? How did you come to this conclusion? They deliberately designed it to be 31cm so that it would fit through the narrowest parts they knew of (38cm? 35cm?), and it was obvious to you that it wouldn't fit?
A solid metal cylinder that can't bend had no chance at all to begin with. If a human cant go through without bending their body how can a cylinder containing a flat standing human get through? An engineer designing for this situation knows to optimise for the camera instead of the cave.
Do you see that diagram says "gap approx 40 cm"? Do you see that I already told you they deliberately designed their submarine to be 31 cm in diameter? Do you see that there's a chance that the oxygen tanks and their human chest combined are indeed more than 31 cm, and hence having to take them off might not say anything about whether a 31 cm tube will fit?
On the other hand you would need to squeeze a person in that submarine over the whole diving range. That would probably not help feeling them more comfortable.
Last not least in article you will find the quote "'The equipment he gave us is not practical for our mission,' Narongsak said Tuesday morning", that might prove my point.
Finally I don't get why you are arguing that the submarine is such a great idea when it's clearly not.
> That would probably not help feeling them more comfortable.
> that might prove my point.
All this doubt in your assessment and all of a sudden you deduce their plan is "bollocks"?
> I don't get why you are arguing that the submarine is such a great idea
Where did I argue a submarine is a great idea? Why must something either be "bollocks" or "a great idea"?
"I am the one who invited @SpaceX because my friend works there."
How do you know?
If you aren't sure exactly who asked him for help, it's good to say that explicitly at the beginning, because saying it with no qualification actually does imply that the asker is someone involved in the situation and not just some rando.
> Elon Musk was asked to help, he agreed to come there and now people talk about "hubris" as if he had tried to force his help on them?
It does sound like it was an invitation or request for help by a relevant person - rather than just a random twitter user.
That's technically correct, a random stranger on the Internet asked for help.
Has anyone actually involved in the rescue effort asked for help in that effort, though.
Right, so in coming up with that interpretation you completely ignored the rest of the discussion and what the point of this question was. The point was not who the person asking was, or what their credentials were. The point was to figure out whether it was some external or internal force that prompted Elon to help. The status of the person who requested his help does not change whether he was the one who came up with the idea of helping or whether it was someone else who did.
That tweet might have motivated me to join the party, and I might even contribute to and be very welcome at that party, but to claim that I was invited to the party because some external force prompted me to go there is not common sense.
Or, you know, you could use try to be more sophisticated in your reasoning and realize it's completely possible and sane to have different criteria when evaluating whether Musk's decision to join a party in response to a stranger's suggestion was an act of hubris compared to when the event in question was an international rescue effort.
I would rather not claim more than I know, given that I don't know if he was asked officially.
wasn't he asked to help by one of his twitter fans who eat up the "ELON IS LITERALLY TONY STARK" kool-aid?
I guess it's like automated cars maybe? It'd save million's of lives but we're so stuck on validating that it might not come in time.
I see nothing here that would embarrass him. He tried to do a kind thing. His speed about it wasn't anything he had control over. To be honest though, they built that thing fast as hell.
Reminder that he started this when they were expecting them to be stuck there possibly MONTHS. The rescue in action now was executed quite quickly and surprisingly (to me), as they had said it could be a long term ordeal. The sub too, was designed it to fit in the narrowest parts of the tunnel as well.
I think it's admirable he quickly got this put together and tested, and flew it over to them as fast as he could.
Likewise, he was respectful and didn't take too much of their time or resources when visiting.
I think he tried to do the right thing. He gave them an option that they didn't have previously. If it's not used, so be it. If they had no other options, then they would have another.
No, why would he. He got what he wanted already.
Recent tweet from Musk on this subject: https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1016686032907931656
Moreover, based on extensive cave video review & discussion with several divers who know journey, SpaceX engineering is absolutely certain that mini-sub can do entire journey
Also this is interesting:
Jiradette Kerdsri: I agree with @elonmusk , actually my team was asked from Thai authorities to design a capsule similar to his prototype. But our design is still on the paper while he already has a finish field prototype. Really admire your inspiration
Also see this comment: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17496684
If I were do design a rescue capsule getting a stainless steel pipe and welding a flange to it or anything would be the least of my worries. You can get stuff like that off-the-shelf with same-day delivery.
But surely a submarine made from Falcon parts makes for a nice myth or headline.
With all his involvements in the past years he likes to tackle complicated technical problems (SpaceX) or use modern technology to disrupt a segment (Tesla/Powergrid/Hyperloop).
The people who dislike Musk will say he is using this awful event for PR and such.
The truth in this case, and most similar cases, is "it's probabaly a little bit of both".
Its a joke to think elon is the pure saint many hope him to be. It's also a joke to think that he's just a rich selfish big-egoed businessman.
People like to jump to black and white but maybe it’s shades of grey, some hubris and also a chance of being genuinely helpful.
The "sub" was never really needed... but good on him anyway.
There is touch of hubris, perhaps.
> His equipment is technologically complex and advanced, but we cannot bring it into the cave for this mission
More generally, one should be wary of capitalists claiming they can solve all of your problems. They're likely just in it for themselves.