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Humans Are Turning Mammals More Nocturnal (outsideonline.com)
116 points by adamnemecek on June 16, 2018 | hide | past | favorite | 29 comments



Relatedly, we're screwing up the already nocturnal animals too. Street lights get mis-perceived as sunlight, keeping them in.

We actually started fixing this by switching to sodium bulbs, which was better for humans too, but now with the push to LED, we're undoing the fix that we did, again hurting both the wildlife and ourselves in the process.


Thanks for bringing this up!

It can be addressed with warmer LED's, filtered LED, narrow-band LED... trouble is the bulk of the market is at 4K & 5K white balance, so that's the default choice to put in.

The good news about LED is, due to more even color profile, they can use dramatically less lux, but that requires adjustment to lighting level too.


> they can use dramatically less lux

They can, but at least what I've seen around California is that they don't. The one outside my window is a good example. It was replaced with LED and now it's like a spotlight right into my window. I didn't even realize there was a light there when it was HPS.


It varies, but a call to your local jurisdiction can get a shade put on a light. My city painted a segment of the nearby intersection’s diffuser black so it doesn’t shine in my eyes when I’m on my balcony.


Which city is this?


How would you create an LED with these properties that is equally efficient as the white light LEDs on the market? Geniunely curious.


> we're screwing up the already nocturnal animals too

Every night I look up at my exterior lights to admire the horde of geckos waiting patiently around each one for the onslaught of bugs to begin bumping into the lights.

I always wondered how different the gecko vs bug population would be without night lights. I've always felt bad for bugs.


Surely animals learn and adapt. A possum wont spend its whole life in its hollow because the light pole nearby is making it believe daytime is 24hrs 7 days a week.


Sure. It can come out while there’s (artificial) light out, which probably means that it’s exposed to predators who, in between artificial light and human activity, have moved their hours of activity into the later hours. Riskier behaviour means more chances to get themselves killed.


But, that's incorrect. The safest place for a small mammal to be is where humans live. Humans do not tolerate large predators in their environment. In my semi-urban neighborhood, we have huge herds of deer lounging around all the front yards. Why? Easy food. And, a neighborhood full of very clever primates who have eradicated all the Bears, wolves, badgers, etc. PLUS these clever primates have domesticated dogs that chase off coyotes but, generally, leave the deer alone.

I suspect you can find more wildlife per square mile in a rural neighborhood than you could in true wilderness.


>> We actually started fixing this by switching to sodium bulbs, which was better for humans too, but now with the push to LED, we're undoing the fix that we did, again hurting both the wildlife and ourselves in the process.

What's the tradeoff on electricity use, though?


HPS uses slightly more energy than LED, but since the power comes from the grid, if you power it with "green energy" then it doesn't really matter pollution-wise, and cost-wise it takes a long time to recoup the cost of switching all the bulbs in energy savings.

The more important reason to switch is that the LEDs give a whiter light, which improves driver reaction time at night.

However, there have been no studies comparing if accidents have actually gone down in cities that switched to LED, which would in theory account for increased sleep deprivation due to more white light at night.


> if you power it with "green energy" then it doesn't really matter pollution-wise, and cost-wise it takes a long time to recoup the cost of switching all the bulbs in energy savings.

It doesn't matter what energy source any individual application is using, it only matters what happens at the margin. For example, if a city switching to slightly more efficient lightbulbs allows a coal power plant to be mothballed one year earlier, then it saves an entire year of coal power emissions from happening.

Furthermore, streetlights operate on a complete inverse power curve to solar, meaning that additional solar is very unlikely to benefit streetlight power.


Cities look much better at night on white light. I doubt we will ever go back to yellow light.


Old fogies like myself will remember that France, and much of Europe, used to require yellow headlights.

The idea being that the removal of blue light reduces the likelihood of dazzle, especially in rain and fog.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Selective_yellow


But apparently they are much worse in clear weather, so the new EU regulation require white lights:

> Whilst yellow light improves visibility in wet or foggy conditions, it can also be harder to see with yellow lights in clear conditions. As a result, many vehicles today use yellow lights only as fog lights.

> White lights are the most popular colour for the headlights of today. In many countries, headlights are no longer allowed to be yellow and must be white in colour. European regulations, for example, require all new vehicles to be manufactured with white headlights.


I can only find that claim on a Powerbulbs store blog post.

Current UN regs do indeed require white. Definitely not "much worse", more like simply different. They were very yellow, right out there with sodium lighting and obliterated colour acuity. So highly unlikely to be coming back. :)


Yeah that's part of the problem. People care about how the city looks vs. the health of themselves and the creatures around them.


This is your opinion, not a consensus-based viewpoint (feel free to link studies though).

Yellow light is more romantic and it creates melatonin. White light keeps people alert due to the blue light in it. What you prefer, depends on your interests. On the road, people need to be awake. For that purpose white light does make sense.


It's not consensus, but there is no consensus either that yellow light is better. Here are some comments from the past, when yellow light was introduced:

> Another skeptic was the Tribune’s legendary architecture critic Paul Gapp. “[Sodium vapor lamps] are more than twice as bright as the blue mercury vapor lights which they would replace and produce an artificial daylight effect whose peculiar offensiveness must be visually experienced to be understood. How can it be said?” Gapp wrote in 1974. “One looks at the eerie, ominous quality of sodium vapor illumination and thinks of the bizarre paintings of Hieronymous Bosch, the frightening futurism of Stanley Kubrick’s A Clockwork Orange, and other nightmares.”

> The jaundiced weirdness of sodium light has become a vexing challenge to photographers (one filmmaker, Tenolian Bell, called it “the ugliest light known to the cinematographer”); movie cameras simulate its color by using a gel filter named Bastard Amber. Significantly, retailers have avoided inflicting the unpleasantness of sodium lights on their customers—most commercial parking lots and shopping malls use the costlier white metal halide lights.


This critic complains the sodium lights are like daylight.

The LED lights are even more like daylight. This would appear to undermine the original poster who preferred LED.


Thanks for sharing. I thought it was universally agreed that white light is awful compared to yellow light. I'll have to dig deeper into this.


I actually like the sodium lights vs. the new LED lighting. LEDs are so much harsher on the eyes.


Look better, or you can see more clearly?

Regardless, I'm not sure your opinion is universal. There was a pretty big protest against them in my city, Montreal, and the mayor relented.


Once technology allows us to more completely bridge the communication gap between humans and animals I think we'll realize that animals have been communicating amongst themselves in sophisticated ways for a long time and they won't have very nice things to say about us.


Perhaps you're right about cetaceans or octopi, but as far as terrestrial animals, I haven't seen any evidence that any of them are smarter than a young human child.

What makes you think terrestrial animals are smarter than young children, or that something less intelligent than a young child has any coherent commentary?


I don’t like the thought of yammering livestock.

I prefer a gentle mooing. Who cares what my burger thinks?


Not sure if this was studied here, but I wonder if it's really "humans" or if its humans of modern-day, industrialized, "western" culture. E.g., do indigenous populations have the same effect on animals?


I think it's more about human occupied area than modernity. There just isn't much space which doesn't have constant human presence through it.




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