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Are you seriously comparing the operating margins of profitable companies to a company that has yet to make a profit based on its operating activities? (Selling credits doesn't count, that's a one-time stunt.)

The numbers for Ford, GM, and Fiat Chrysler include all of their global activities, including their sales of lower-margin cars, compliance cars (i.e., no-margin or negative-margin vehicles, massive R&D, international operations, etc.). You are literally trying to compare the gross margin on a single Tesla model to the overall operating margins of entire companies...that's not even apples to oranges. That's comparing apples to zucchinis.



I'm making observations with all publicly available information I can get my hands on.

I'm not saying Tesla's margins are 30%. I am saying that if they're able to attain their production goals, it's likely they will hit their target margin, which are above legacy automakers.


You do understand that Tesla's gross margin that you are arguing around don't include R&D, and I'm not sure if covers SG&A too.

While the numbers you cited include every expense.


“So how does Tesla actually do on a per-vehicle basis? To that, we turn to the quarterly reports. Before Model 3 production became significant — aka, just S and X sales — Tesla was earning a 25% non-GAAP margin / 27,9% GAAP margin in their automotive division. These are very healthy margins. As Model 3 production ramped up — and famously encountered difficulty — Tesla’s gross margins fell, bottoming out at 13,8% non-GAAP and 18,3% GAAP, before rising back to 18,8% non-GAAP and 19,7% margin.”

https://m.dailykos.com/stories/2018/5/29/1767826/-The-War-on...


And you can't compare these numbers to other car makers, because they include all the lifecycle costs for each car model, including the design, production line spin-up, etc.

If you're an auto startup, computing numbers the Tesla way makes sense: Tesla is growing rapidly and will outgrow its current high fixed costs. If you're an established automaker that's not growing, adding in everything makes sense.




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