My 2017 Macbook Pro is five months old and the A, D, R, and T keys will lift right off with my fingers as I type.
I looked at them with a magnifying glass. The C-clamps that hold them in aren't broken. They just are stretched an extra micronanometer such that they don't hold the spoke anymore. It alone wastes a bunch of my time every minute as I have to fix the keys as I type a line of code, but the anger it provokes is even more distracting.
If I could go back in time five month ago, I would've simply bought a Macbook Air which still has the older keyboard. My previous computer was a 2014 Macbook Air and it's the best computer I've used. The battery lasted longer as well.
Another surprising quirk of the Macbook Pro is how hot it gets. I can't watch Netflix with it perched on my belly in bed like I did for three years with my Air.
It's comical how much I hate this computer. If I wasn't roughing it on minimal expenses in Mexico, I'd sell it and get a new Air. I'm glad I didn't sell my old Air because I guarantee inside of three months I'll be using it over this MBP. It just needs a new battery but there aren't any Apple stores here.
I’ve had mine since it was released and haven’t had any issues, but what happened when you brought it into the Apple Store? Would assume they would be able too fix that right away versus other repair issues that can be quite involved.
I tried out the MBP keyboard before buying and thought it would be ok. Unfortunately, the experience of using it for a few minutes in a store is very different from using it several hours a day. My fingers literally hurt most days. I cannot believe that "upgrading" to a new computer could be such a big step backward on this important metric.
I was never a keyboard snob. I never owned a mechanical keyboard, and I never "just had to tell" someone about my new cherry mx pro aqua-purple super keys. All keyboards seemed passable to me, with no further opinion. The new macbook (which i was issued at work) is the first time, actually, that I had an opinion on a keyboard. and it was a distinctively bad one. It was an interesting realization that one could hate a keyboard.
I switched to ASUS C302CA and the keyboard there is actually nice :)
To give a counterpoint, I absolutely love the new keyboard and think it's objectively one of the best I've ever typed on (sans the arrow keys, which are a horrible step backward).
That said, I already replaced a machine with this keyboard due to failing keys and now have a silicone cover over the keyboard of the new one, which inarguably degrades that experience. I'd rather have an okay keyboard that works than a fantastic one that doesn't.
I’m holding off an MBP update for as long as possible until Apple: 1. Gets rid of the touchbar, 2. Fixes that daft keyboard, 3. Slaps Intel and makes them ship 32GB lpddr4, and an 8 core iWhateger.
I've owned every single form factor of the MBP. I've loved all of them except for this latest "touchbar" version. Actually kicking myself for not returning it straight away.
Same here, though I’m very happy with the latest version with the exception of the touchbase as well. Never use it but can’t ignore it since that’s where the volume, brightness and esc are. And freezes sometimes and TouchID seems slow. Wish I could get the same model without it since my computer unlocks via my Apple Watch anyway.
I have a collection of 2014 MBPs because I have a real concern that no one is ever going to make a computer that good (or even a decent computer) ever again.
My ThinkPad X1 is as good as any generation of MacBook, it is certainly more serviceable and has a better keyboard. You might prefer MacOS to Linux or Windows, but I can assure you that there are very decent hardware alternatives.
One of my constraints is that I have to provide IT support for my very non-technical spouse. That is a very severe constraint. Linux is not an option for her, and Windows is not really an option for me. That leaves Macs.
My wife has a Mac, but when it dies, I'm going to persuade her to try Ubuntu. She only uses the Mac for Facebook and occasional Word/Excel. I think LibreOffice and Firefox should have her covered.
I use the keyboard a lot more than moving the pointer. I use a tiling window manager under Linux and lots of keyboard shortcuts, which helps. For moving the pointer, I prefer the ThinkPad trackpoint, as I do not have to take my hands off the keyboard.
I've only had a few issues with my 15" 2017 MBP, mostly dust and dirt easily fixed with compressed air. That said, I never had a problem with any MBP keyboard before this machine. It seems some people are having way more issues than others, which speaks of a significant inconsistency in quality and wear/tear over time.
It could also be related to how hard users are on their keyboards. I’ve a couple dozen MBPs deployed ranging from 2014-2017. The keyboards on newer model don’t seem to pair well with heavy (read: slightly abusive) typists. I haven’t upgraded mine :).
I've noticed similar trends. With SSDs and all metal designs with very few moving parts, I would have thought these devices would be much more durable. Instead, we're breaking the primary input method that used to work reasonably well. So much for progress...
Good initiative to push Apple. There are around 7k signatures now as its trending here. Let's assume it gets up to 10-20k over the trending period.
Some X% of the people petitioning there would be actual users of the model in scope (Macbook Pro 2017 and beyond). And Y% of those people may actually have this issue.
Problem is, nobody would ever know X and Y, and its really bad to speculate. It makes the whole petition basically a guessing game.
Realistically speaking, the only outcome would be to force Apple to take note, or at best issue a statement. Either way, the keyboard is not going away. It would be announced that it would get "better over time" - which it would have anyways. Its hard to do worse than this going by the feedback.
I'm currently keeping an 'e' in my clipboard and using paste to type it every time I need it because my e key is totally broken. i, k and spacebar on the way out as well...
I think emails to Apple would be more effective. Petitions to companies tend to have a bandwagon effect and seem to be largely ignored, especially by Apple.
I agree this keyboard is the worst. I also have aching fingers from using it, compared to my previous 2013 pro 15", and beloved thinkpads.
I currently have a broken 'S' key (a couple of the very fragile teeny tiny clips have broken off the keycap) after just a few months - Admittedly, becaue a liquid spill rendered the 'S' intermittently unresponsive, so I removed the keycap to clean with alcohol, which did at least fix the contacts, so the key works, but broke the keycap.
Hopefully I can get a replacement keycap to keep me going until probably the liquid spill (a splash of beer, countered immediately with turning the laptop off and upside down in front of a fan overnight etc) starts corroding.
But regardless, the most egregious fault is that the keyboard can't be replaced without also replacing half the laptop, at excessive cost, not to mention the affront of having to pay again for the same crappy keyboard.
This is unacceptable, as the keyboard is one of the few moving parts on the device, and the one most exposed to external dangers.
I'm having issues with my 2015 Macbook Pro display getting weird unremovable marks and stains from interaction with the keyboard. I hope they'll replace it for me but these quality issues are really annoying. Here's a (bad) pic to show what I mean: https://i.imgur.com/LIK4qq5.jpg
This is a well known issue and Apple will replace your screen free of charge when you take it in. The catch is your laptop will be in service for a week or two which is very annoying if you depend on it for work. You can always buy a new laptop from them while they repair it and return the purchased laptop to them once you get your own laptop back
Apple refused to replace for this issue for me on my 2013. Claimed I must have damaged it by applying too much pressure to it in a bag. Did everything I could including many emails but got nowhere, so if you’re able to offer any advice or even a case reference or something I could refer to I will definitely try and get them to repair it again.
Looks like the same might be happening to my six month old MBP, along with the keyboard going, which I’ve been really careful with, so yeah, Apple laptops aren’t in my good books right now!
There's a facebook group [0] that has people in it who have successfully gotten Apple to change their display for free. Have you tried talking to their online support? When I did and referenced "Staingate" they told me to bring my MacBook in and replace it for free.
When I did it, they said they would only do it up until 3 years after the purchase date of the Macbook but there are people in that Facebook group who have had theirs changed for free with a little bit of arguing.
i keep meaning to look for some sort of cloth to place over the keyboard before closing it to keep the glass from coming in contact with the grease on the keys. the next trick would be to remember to use it
They have a similar design flaw in the 2015 macbook pros.
The keyboard and trackpad will stop working after about a year. It happens because the trackpad ribbon cable sits on the battery, and as the battery heats and expands it destroys the ribbon cable. This design flaw was introduced in the 2015 line.
When you take it to Apple, they say you can either pay $500 to get the keyboard and trackpad replaced, or pay $100 for them to swap out the ribbon cable. Mind you, that ribbon cable only costs $10 if you order it online and swap it out yourself.
Here’s a youtube video that shows how to fix it. It has tens of thousands of views:
And there are tons of these fix-it videos on youtube for this specific issue. Lots of people are having this same exact problem. Apple does not acknowledge that this is a problem.
This one could really do _without_ the special HN apple weighting, I'm sure there are plenty of HN apple users who would benefit from seeing/signing this.
I don't own one of these either, I pretty much hate the current state of apple hardware and software, but that doesn't mean I don't have empathy for those who have essentially been conned by Apple here... don't get me wrong I get a bit of a sinister grin as I see Apple's shitty tactics fail on them, but ultimately they screw over people, and this petition is an opportunity to do right by the people and make Apple pay up.
The 2017 keyboard seems to not have any of those issues. The touchbar can sometimes be really annoying when I accidentally hit the Siri key when typing fast.
Overall I prefer my 2017 15" pro to my 2015 one mainly because it is thinner, supports USB-C charging, and the screen is much much better
I have issues, too, but it's with random keystroke repeats. The fingerprint button has been making strange noises since I got the brand new MacBook Pro. I'm hugely disappointed, but Apple is arrogant and won't fix this for us, though!
I've got a late 2016 MBP and the right command key does not register about 1/10 of the time I press it. I use that key a lot. I'm taking it to the Apple Store tomorrow to see what they say about it.
I have a late 2017 MBP and the left command key does not register about 2/3 of the time unless you press it in exactly the right spot. We've cancelled all current/future MacBook Pro orders due to problems with the keyboard.
I wonder if Apple is being subtly sabotaged by competitors who have double agent employees that wormed their way into Apple and gained access to Tim Cook's ear.
I own a 15" MacBook Pro 2016 and already this keyboard has given me more trouble than any other laptop keyboard. Several of the keys are "mushy" and harder to press than most of the others, and there have been times where a spec of dust rendered some of the keys temporarily defective. None of the keys have outright stopped working, and I thankfully haven't run into the double-keypress issue, so at the moment the mushy keys are not worth risking getting an even worse keyboard if I were to try to get a replacement before my warranty expires (I purchased this less than a year ago Apple refurbished).
This petition may not amount to anything, but I'm sure someone in Cupertino has taken notice. Apple has "we know what's best for our customers, better than they do" engrained in their culture, and when it comes to design decisions, sometimes they are right, but I don't see how anyone there could justify a defective or unreliable (at best) keyboard being the right thing for any of its customers. You know what would take courage? To publicly acknowledge the issue and do right by your customers. That takes way more courage than removing a headphone jack.
Unless a recall actually happens (not likely, but I'm really hoping so), we'll never know what--if any--kind of impact this petition has had, but I'm hoping it will cause Apple to (at minimum) go back to the drawing board on this thing and give us a better keyboard the next time around. They should also expose the keyboard to more rigorous testing (that includes dust and other air debris). I just hope the keyboard I have lasts until I'm ready for an upgrade because I don't see myself spending $700 on a repair when this is already the most expensive laptop I've ever purchased (and the $700 is a gamble considering you could get an even worse keyboard).
The sad thing is, back in 2006 I was in the US Military stationed in Baghdad, and I had with me a cheap $600 Dell laptop. That thing survived sand storms that would leave the inside of our tent (and all of our belongings) covered in dust (even with the laptop lid closed and inside of a locker). I highly doubt this keyboard would have survived that deployment. It's sad that a low-end DELL computer from 2006 had a keyboard that's more reliable than Apple's top of the line notebook. If it weren't for macOS, which I love probably more than Apple does, this whole keyboard saga would have caused me to ditched Apple laptops and go with Lenovo.
At the time of this writing, 16,778 people have signed the petition. If each one of those people are a MBP owner, and let's round down the average cost to $2000, that's $33,556,000. That's a drop in the bucket compared to the 5.8 billion in Mac revenue in Q2; however, the Mac business seems big enough to at least please the thousands of customers who feel cheated.
If it’s programmable (and they did a decent job of making the touchbar programmable), it could be an incredible tool. And while getting the haptic right is probably tough, I wonder if it could be in reach now (I love the Magic Touchpad 2, and that’s not much smaller than a keyboard. Although keyboard will need to give some cues as to where the keys “are”...)
The howls of the anti-touchbar crowd would just be the icing on the cake...
this is the biggest muscle memory i've had to fight myself from doing. i never realized how much time i would rest my fingers on a key in the Fn key row until the touch bar.
i could not imagine trying to do this for an entire keyboard.
I looked at them with a magnifying glass. The C-clamps that hold them in aren't broken. They just are stretched an extra micronanometer such that they don't hold the spoke anymore. It alone wastes a bunch of my time every minute as I have to fix the keys as I type a line of code, but the anger it provokes is even more distracting.
If I could go back in time five month ago, I would've simply bought a Macbook Air which still has the older keyboard. My previous computer was a 2014 Macbook Air and it's the best computer I've used. The battery lasted longer as well.
Another surprising quirk of the Macbook Pro is how hot it gets. I can't watch Netflix with it perched on my belly in bed like I did for three years with my Air.
It's comical how much I hate this computer. If I wasn't roughing it on minimal expenses in Mexico, I'd sell it and get a new Air. I'm glad I didn't sell my old Air because I guarantee inside of three months I'll be using it over this MBP. It just needs a new battery but there aren't any Apple stores here.