I used to walk home from my friends' house to mine when I was at university in New Zealand, often drunk or high.
The police would usually stop and talk to me if they drove past.
I always thought of it as a good thing. I lived in a high burglary area (being a student area), so there were a lot of shady characters walking around at night, especially in the back streets. They never actually detained me or even got out of the car, they'd usually just ask me where I was coming from and where I was going.
I never needed to give them exact details, they were happy with me just telling them the general area.
I guess that's the critical difference though: I was never detained. The police never viewed me through the lens of suspicion, they never talked to me in an accusatory tone. I felt more like they were checking that I was OK, rather than checking that I was a criminal.
> The police never viewed me through the lens of suspicion, they never talked to me in an accusatory tone. I felt more like they were checking that I was OK, rather than checking that I was a criminal.
As a European I wonder if this is "because Freedom", that the state-sceptical tradition laid out by the US constitution has created an expectation that police should never interact with anybody who isn't a criminal. That way, the attempt of making the police nicer has made them less nice, by removing nuance (unless you happen to never fall into the area of uncertainty, where nuance will be missed). Any thoughts on this by Americans?
As a white American, I carefully watch what I say around police and generally do not trust them.
Most police are incentivized to "solve" crimes, not solve crimes. They are exposed to the worst our society has to offer and this takes a toll on them. We as a society also feel that every crime can be solved and that an inability to solve the crime is incompetence.
Sometimes the evidence doesn't quite match the person the police strongly feel committed the crime, so words get twisted, evidence gets adjusted to make things fit a little better.
That conversation you had the other day telling an officer about your vacation in Florida can be turned around and then used as evidence against you in your trial for a murder that took place in the vicinity of the hotel you stayed at.
It doesn't matter that you told the officer you were with your family the entire time, he may not remember that or remember it a bit differently than you. Now it's your word against his in court. Who is a jury going to believe?
Of course, they would have to have other evidence to convict, some of it possibly slightly adjusted also. Even if you are cleared of the charge, that's not something anyone wants to go through. The humiliation, the cost, the damage to your relationships as people start to doubt you.
The less info the police have about me and the less interaction I have with then, the lower the chance my name might pop into their heads when they're looking for a "person of interest."
I'm not saying police want to send innocent people to jail. I'm saying their internal biases and desire to hold someone responsible for a crime causes them to twist the facts to ensure that the person they suspect gets convicted.
If you have the time, you should watch this[1] video. It may provide some insight into the American criminal justice system.
"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."
So, does that imply a skepticism of the state?
Yes and no.
Yes, in that if the police are interacting with you, they should have a reasonable belief about your involvement in a crime or that you have information which could reasonably aid their investigation.
No, because the reality is the vast majority of police interactions in the US are brief, professional, lawful, and friendly.
The police in New Zealand and Australia seem to be a lot less agressive than their American counterparts. I don't ever hear of stories like the original post come from either country.
I'm a cyclist, and one of the big cycle equipment blogs is DCRainmaker.
He ran a story about a run-in with some Australian cops while on a ride that is just mind-blowing in how different it is from similar run-ins with American police.
Great to see some anecdotes to support my gut feelings on this! I am amazed that Americans would consider this pleasant police behaviour. As an Australian, I consider this unnecessary and heavy handed, although it gives me more than a little pride that the cops were able to admit to being wrong.
It's horrifying when you stop to think that any police car going by could end with a bad interaction to some degree, completely depending on how the officer feels about you or in general. Baring extraordinary circumstances, that officer will completely get away with it as well.
Same in Canada (where I live). We have a few higher-crime neighborhoods in my city, mostly occupied by non-white people, and the police don't really patrol around those areas. They come out if you call them.
The police in my city mostly target native americans, which commit the most crime here. But the cops aren't violent or forceful from what I've seen. Most of the time they just come out because someone is drunk and being a nuisance, so they come out and talk to the person/people and get them to move on from the area.
I'm not sure what happens with reserve police. You have to get a warrant to enter reserve property if you are city police or mounted. I think mostly they don't even bother.
Yes. Australian police are racist specifically against indigenous peoples. To even suggest this is really dangerous in Australia, which is why it continues to happen without most people noticing. It's terrible.
The police would usually stop and talk to me if they drove past.
I always thought of it as a good thing. I lived in a high burglary area (being a student area), so there were a lot of shady characters walking around at night, especially in the back streets. They never actually detained me or even got out of the car, they'd usually just ask me where I was coming from and where I was going.
I never needed to give them exact details, they were happy with me just telling them the general area.
I guess that's the critical difference though: I was never detained. The police never viewed me through the lens of suspicion, they never talked to me in an accusatory tone. I felt more like they were checking that I was OK, rather than checking that I was a criminal.