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In the same vein, I suppose in Europe we don't see education as only a mean to an end (a job), but we value education in and of itself.

Also, education itself is much less a business here than in the US.




The elephant in the room is that in quite a few European countries [edit] (such as Germany or Scandinavian countries) it's free or really cheap (ie. Italy) [/edit], hence the well-known phenomenon of the "eternal student".

In countries where job market can be tough, such as Southern Europe or Poland - where I'm from, and where I've observed this first-hand (in Italy, too) - going to uni is a common way of deferring the unpleasant clash with economic reality.

It provides an excellent "alibi" for a few years' worth extension of parents' financial support. "We value education in and of itself" attitude certainly comes in handy ;)


In my opinion, the goal of "progress" is exactly to enable the situation of being an "eternal student". Not to constantly manufacture new cogs for the "economy", but to allow anyone to become the better version of themselves.

What you point out as an issue, I see as a sign we have reached a good point in human history. (a good point, but not the end, of course issues exists, but as long as we don't mark them as "Working as intended" or "WONTFIX"...)

I'm an utopian of course. And of course someone can, and will, have a different opinion.


Indeed, the working class should be grateful to subsidise the lifestyles of their betters. For obviously we who love words are better than those who love life.


Yes, I think it's quite likely that the cab driver and the welder next door (the "cogs", as you'd call them) might dispute whether the progress is about me studying liberal arts for six years and then cultural studies for seven ;)) The snag is that this luxury cannot be financed only by taxing the infamous "1%"


You deeply underestimate the wealth of the infamous "1%".


In which country? Besides, the size of the wealth itself isn't the only factor at play when it comes to effective taxation.


>The elephant in the room is that in quite a few European countries (such as Italy, Germany) it's free, hence the well-known phenomenon of the "eternal student".

You are simplifying it a tad bit too much.

In Italy Univesity course is not "free", it has a low cost (taxes and fees + books), but - unless you (with your parents) already live in the city where the university is, there are transfer/lodgement costs.

There was an article just the other day on the Corriere della Sera about the situation, I assume you can read Italian, otherwise it is not that bad via Google translate:

http://www.corriere.it/dataroom-milena-gabanelli/quanto-cost...

And - with the exception of very few specific and "technical" courses the issue is that once you have spent these 15.000-45.000 Euro you are not going to receive - if you find a job - an increased wage when compared to someone without a degree or with an undergraduate degree.

Of course the main underlying reason is that there is a high unemployment rate, and "on the market" an "average" degree has not much increased value.

Possibly something similar happens for CS, firms have "basic" CS degree as a requirement but do not value much an additional Master.


> In Italy Univesity course is not "free", it has a low cost (taxes and fees + books)

OK, so not quite free. I stand corrected, thanks :) In Poland anyway there's no tuition fee - at public universities, of course.

> unless you (with your parents) already live in the city where the university is, there are transfer/lodgement costs.

I should think this goes without saying... No free lunches for students, either ;)


>OK, so not quite free.

To give you a rough approximation, for taxes there is a complex method of calculation, depending on the combined income of the family, loosely between 700 and 2,700 Euro per year, and the books may be anything between 300 and 1,000 Euro per year.


The original comment was meant to describe the 'elephant in the room' of how relatively inexpensive higher education is in Europe, and it definitely still holds true from a US perspective.

At my current university in the Boston area, for example, yearly tuition is around ~$50,000 USD, and that doesn't even include room & board; I'm paying an additional $1,400 per month for a private room in a 2bed/1bath.

With that in mind, the original comment definitely still offers a perspective I didn't consider before in terms of the cost difference in relation to the arguments in this thread.




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