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Paul,

Respectfully, it is not linkbait.

This is my honest opinion based on Facebook's track record. I would give the same advice to any startup: don't trust Facebook and don't give them any access to your startup or plans.

Period. End of story.

If an entrepreneur needs any evidence of the trustworthiness of Facebook, simply talk to folks inside of Quora, FourSquare, Twitter and Zynga (among others). I'm sure you've spoken to folks inside these companies, like I have, who are infuriated with Zuckerberg's blatant stealing (without innovation).

At every chance they can get, Facebook has simply stolen. Given their scale, bringing them inside the incubators is, well, mind boggling.

If you're a startup company you should be avoiding Facebook and their staffers.

I'm sure you have great intentions PG, and you know I respect all that you've accomplished, but don't dismiss me. I really don't need press because, to a certain extent, I am press.

Add to that the fact that I'm massively overexposed (especially here on HN), and you're claim that I'm link-baiting feels disingenuous.

Like you, I love startups and entrepreneurship. I only want to see folks do well and not get ripped off by Facebook, which I consider the most unethical company in technology.

One only need to look at the mountain of lawsuits they've generated for proof of this. Facebook's long list of lawsuits are not from ambulance-chasing law firms mind you, they are by PARTNERS and FRIENDS of Zuckerberg's! Oh yeah, a lot of the lawsuits and complaints are also by privacy groups and government agencies trying to protect citizens.

If Zuckerberg has no problem screwing his friends, partners and customers, what do you think he will do to a three-person startup that might innovate its way into being competition for him?

I fear you've made a big mistake letting the fox into the henhouse.

Startups: listen to PG on everything since he's brilliant--but take my advice on this one. :-)

best jason




I understand what you're getting at, but I also think that pg was justified in taking offense to your claims. What you're offering the startup community is speculation. What you're suggesting is plausible, but you haven't really backed it up with logic suggesting it's probable. Startups need more than the opinions of a few disgruntled competitors to base their decisions off of.

Think about it. There are two possibilities:

1) Facebook is trying to ensnare startups into its web of twisted lies so it can destroy them.

2) Facebook is just trying to work out a mutually beneficial deal with startups that want to leverage their technologies.

While #1 is possible, you have to admit that #2 is the more likely situation. It's like Sagan said: "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence."

I'm sure you know what you're talking about, so this should be pretty easy. Give the startup community sound logic rather than speculation.


Many of these features are not hard to implement. Did google backstab twitter when they invented buzz? Did twitter and foursquare enter any sort of partnership or contract other than automatic api access with facebook?


This is why he says "…if you tell Facebook about your startup before you reach critical mass"

If you're at critical mass, you might be able to hold your own. Foursquare and Twitter have enough users and industry clout that they can hold their own. If you're just starting on an idea, maybe you're getting a little bit of momentum, it might be tempting to talk to someone at Facebook and see if they will help you.

But… It's easier and less risky for Facebook to just implement your idea themselves. If they want a feature for their users, why depend on some little startup that may or may not fail? I don't think they're going out of their way to steal ideas. I think they are trying to maximize their own success. We could call it a lack of morals, but I think it's subjective which is why we have these debates.

Still, you probably should try to think about it from Facebook's perspective and be realistic about your position of leverage before you approach them with an idea.


but take my advice on this one. :-)

Why, on earth, should anyone listen to you?

Did you provide data? No. Did you provide facts? No. Do you have any kind of credibility whatsoever? No.

All you have is a pink blouse and a pathological case of Narcissistic Personality Disorder that you unfortunately feel obliged to broadcast in HD at the slightest opportunity.

And by the way, do you know what will happen when facebook/YC screws people over? The word will spread like wildfire. Because people have their own little voices around here. We don't need you and your pink blouse to save us.


And by the way, do you know what will happen when facebook/YC screws people over? The word will spread like wildfire.

Apparently the word doesn't spread to people like you, considering the long list of people Zuckerberg has screwed.


What makes you think I didn't notice that?

How could anyone miss that, given the steady influx of facebook stories esp. on HN?

So what did Jasons dramatic little speech add here?

Yea, fire is hot and facebook has probably no problem screwing you over when they get an opportunity. Say what, captain obvious!


Please, let's keep the discussion on HN civil, rational and lacking in ad hominem attacks.


Frankly, pg should not be dismissing his detractors' arguments as 'mere linkbait' if he wants to maintain a civil atmosphere on this forum. Not to say your direct parent was justified in his flaming, but our curator should have known better than to throw in that spark.


"Ad Hominem" <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem>; is merely not an attack, it's a logically fallacious way of making an argument which the GP was not guilty of. Since the GP merely attacked the GGP but based no real argument on those attacks, what he did was a mere "personal attack."


Let's attack the issue, not the messenger.


Whose message is he delivering, aside from his own?




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