Short answer: yes, and in far less time than you'd think. The difference between the examples you cite, specifically, is trivial, and if it's a sticking point for you I'd suggest (and I'm not trying to be catty at all) that you broaden your experience with different languages. I mean, languages like J can become readable with enough experience -- stuff like the above is just a blip on the syntactical radar screen.
Optimizing syntax for readability is a worthy goal, but experience (both with the language in question and languages in general) is an almost insurmountable confound here, and ultimately your goal should be to effortlessly "see past" surface differences so you can concentrate on the deeper facilities the language provides for expression.
Heh. I am pulling this example straight from Hy's tutorial. They are the ones claiming that this syntax is superior to Python's. I do have a hard time with parsing it in my brain.
Long ago, I internalized what I believe to be true about programming languages: they should be optimized for the humans using them, not for the machines that run the programs or the compiler authors who create them. This leads to less bugs. Maybe your goal is to see past syntax to understand language semantics. My goal is to get code shipped with as few bugs as possible as quickly as possible. Python and ES let me do that pretty well. Also don't meant to be catty, to each their own interests.
I think what was meant was that the semantics should be optimized to human. Those semantics matter more then the syntax, since you can quickly get used to syntax.
So think of it as learning to recognize and pronounce an alphabet used to form words, over understanding the meaning of sentences in a given language.
Having said that, once you get used to the lisp syntax, as I did, I find it is better suited to humans. But to believe it you need to try out structural editing.
It can optimize for both, in fact that's what Lisp is all about. Take Hy, its got Python's semantics, supports all of its features and paradigms, but its syntax is simpler, more uniform, homoiconic and more powerful. This is turn allows you to extend, modify or refine Python's semantics, since the Lisp syntax will always be able to express them.
> they should be optimized for the humans using them, not for the machines that run the programs or the compiler authors who create them.
Almost every high-level language espouses this goal -- even something as seemingly esoteric as J specifically does. Which is to say, your argument assumes that python's syntax is somehow more suited to humans, but I think you'd be hard pressed to back that up with evidence. Clearly it feels more natural to you, but why? It's hard to control for familiarity even in your own personal case, let alone programmers in general.
Short answer: yes, and in far less time than you'd think. The difference between the examples you cite, specifically, is trivial, and if it's a sticking point for you I'd suggest (and I'm not trying to be catty at all) that you broaden your experience with different languages. I mean, languages like J can become readable with enough experience -- stuff like the above is just a blip on the syntactical radar screen.
Optimizing syntax for readability is a worthy goal, but experience (both with the language in question and languages in general) is an almost insurmountable confound here, and ultimately your goal should be to effortlessly "see past" surface differences so you can concentrate on the deeper facilities the language provides for expression.