What's the viable alternative? I'm looking for a replacement for my 2013 rMBP. Every PC laptop has a fatal flaw. The Spectre x360 15 comes close, but has less battery life (despite having a slightly larger battery), is bigger and heavier, has only a dual core processor, and has a worse screen.
The XPS 15 is another option. Even with a significantly larger battery it doesn't seem to have better stamina than the MBP. It's apparently been plagued by QA problems, and offers a choice only between a 1080p and power-hungry 4K (can't get high-DPI and 10 hour battery life in the same package).
I suspect, looking at the sales numbers, that you're wrong. Apple is giving up on a certain group of users (who need fast GPUs). They gave on those users years ago by shipping crappy OpenGL drivers. But they've correctly perceived that common users don't want ports, or expandability. They want a fast machine with a great screen and all-day battery life, and they want to hit those metrics in the smallest package possible.
I recently trashed my 2011 MBP (oops) and spent a month without it. I decided to try using my corporate-provided Surface Pro 4 instead to see how I could get on with a similar-spec Windows 10 PC for personal use.
By the end of the month I had gone slightly loopy (seriously - MacBook withdrawl is real), gave up and bought a 2015 rMBP. Personally I find macOS, and its deep integration with Apple's hardware, too intuitive and 'invisible' to the way I work to give up on it.
I use both Linux Mint and MacOS on a daily basis and I can't say that one really is better than the other. I'm sure it would be the same with Windows if not for the fact that I need some unix-y stuff.
I do have a use case that I would really like to get on my primary laptop that neither Mac nor Linux currently offer: Detach screen and use stylus to annotate pdfs. If I was using windows on a surface this would be a major part of my workflow, and I would find it impossible to switch back. Doesn't prove that Windows is superior. (Maybe I will end up dualbooting Windows and Linux on a Surface or Yoga or some such thing eventually).
>> Have you tried the Windows Subsystem for Linux? You might be able to get by without a separate Linux install.
I have been meaning to Subsystem for Linux that since they announced it, but Cmder (Conemu) has been so working well for me that I have gotten too complacent to even try it. Cmder was the one thing for me when I switched to Mac that truly made the transition painless -- I thought I would hate not having OSX Terminal. I don't do super advanced unix shell stuff, and it was just perfect.
I've been using it since it was available on the insider fast ring.
It works pretty well for command-line use. If you need X at all, you're probably SOL.
I've been doing mostly C++ & Python development. I've run into a couple of issues around networking and a couple of UI issues. The UI issues have been fixed after I reported an issue on GitHub.
All in all, it's been a fairing great experience, and the developers have been very responsive to issues reported on GitHub.
Not yet, but I'm following it closely. Currently I don't have a Windows install on any of my work machines, so it's something I will evaluate when I update computers next.
>> By the end of the month I had gone slightly loopy (seriously - MacBook withdrawl is real),
After being on Mac for about a decade, it only took a week of using Windows full time before going back on the Mac felt foreign to me.
If I spent a week or so full time on the Mac, the reverse would probably happen.
These days I only care that my main tools work on whatever operating system I use (it's a great era for end users now that so many tools are cross platform). There are things about every OS'es main UI that bug me, so I don't find myself being loyal to any one particular OS.
Mac hardware is great! But I find using OS X is like trying to juggle with handcuffs compared to the Windows.
IMHO In their quest for simplicity, that have made a very good GUI for users, but hell for professional developers who DON'T only use the command line. One of my lifelong friends swears by his MBP, but he only uses the command line.
I think that depends on your view. IMO, Apple generally does make some of the best hardware in terms of quality and design, but there are exceptions.
The Mac Pro garbage can, for example. I don't know why they chose to make an art piece to replace the incredibly functional and expandable tower that existed before.
Another example is the early 2011 Macbook Pro 15" with discrete GPU, which had serious overheating problems that they just pretended didn't exist for more than three years.
I feel like I'm in prison or an insane asylum when I have to use my Mac or iOS devices after enjoying the freedom that I have using Windows all day.
I could go very far into detail here and list all of the extremely annoying limitations that I run into, but instead I'll respond to your vague complaints with my own. Apple quite obviously wants absolute control over their device and their software whereas Microsoft lets me to do whatever I want with my computers and my software.
I have to have a Mac to make iOS apps, but as soon as those are no longer a thing I'll toss all my Mac stuff straight into the garbage.
I've had the opposite experience. OSX is just weird bsd with a great window manager and ui framework. You can easily sidestep gatekeeper, if that is your complaint.
The hardware fit and finish is also second to none, and runs windows just fine if that's your thing.
The alternative on windows is a machine that spies on me, has horrible ui bugs and inconsistencies I run into constantly, and decides to auto update and reset all my privacy settings in the middle of the night while I am using the machine.
Not to mention it is often used with some awful trackpad. I haven't tried them all but I have never seen a non-mac trackpad I could go back to.
> The alternative on windows is a machine that spies on me, has horrible ui bugs and inconsistencies I run into constantly, and decides to auto update and reset all my privacy settings in the middle of the night while I am using the machine.
This exactly. I'm still baffled by claims that Windows 10 has a good desktop UI when I see its iconography [1], huge click (touch) targets [2], and wildly inconsistent use of whitespace [3]. That's not even mentioning the forced updates and always-on telemetry. I'm not sure how one can say macOS is more of a walled garden than Windows at this point, at least macOS's security features will get out of your way if you ask nicely.
> I'm still baffled by claims that Windows 10 has a good desktop UI when I see its iconography [1], huge click (touch) targets [2], and wildly inconsistent use of whitespace [3].
This almost reads as sarcasm. Some people really don't care about those things, and using them as examples of why you're baffled just highlights that disconnect between you and them. I don't use any bundled windows apps, and I'm rarely in the settings (and I just search for what setting I want), so iconography and whitespace design decisions in windows apps don't even factor into it for me.
Neither OS X nor Windows feel as comfortable as my customized FVWM config did, but windows gets a lot closer nowadays. I had to use OS X at work for a few years and it always grated.
> That's not even mentioning the forced updates
It's possible to disable them, you just have to put some effort into it (it requires regedit). I think this is the right decision. If you want to disable updates and you don't know how to change a registry setting, then for the good of us all, the answer is no.
I want automatic updates. I think this is a good thing. Chrome automatically updates whenever I restart it. This is great.
I don't want updates when I am in the middle of something full screen like a game, forcing a restart of the machine on me. This is madness.
I don't want ads for office 365, Cortana or edge on my desktop. I don't want to learn how to block them. I don't want to use an OS that feels like it is being milked for all it's worth in its dying breaths.
It always asks me, and I can delay it. You've actually had it force an update right then while playing a game, and without having told it "no, delay it" multiple consecutive times (I believe it will only let you delay it 2-3 times)?
Edit: Also, have you set your active hours? Windows allows you to define the times you use your system so it won't attempt to update during those times. Additionally, you can set a specific custom restart time for when it will restart.
I tried to. I play games for a few hours either at night or early am -- say 6pm-1am or 5am-9am are my possible slots. Unfortunately, windows update will not accommodate this -- you are only allowed to set one window with an 8 (maybe 12) hour max, and it must be consecutive. I had to dig around to find this, and it still is not sufficient. I ultimately solved my problem by using the regex editor to convince windows I was on a metered internet connection. Unfortunately, this broke update all together. I turned it back and now its still broken -- apparently the magic auto-updater is the only way get updates -- there's no button I can click to just download the latest update and install it? (at this point I gave up)
What about setting the specific update time to something like 3 AM?
I was just in the windows update settings and there was a way at the top to check for updates right then. I didn't use it so I'm not sure if there's some other gotchas involved with that.
I'll have to check that out, thank you for the tip. What I would really like is a a shutdown button that actually "Check for updates, install if found, then turn off". I'd click that every time I was done using it.
The window inconsistently interrupts my game. Some games it is able to rip me out of it mid session to tell me to restart, other times it silently times out in the background despite my computer running at full blast.
I have set active hours but for some reason my windows partition - and not my ubunutu partition, so it isn't a hardware issue - does not reliably remember my time zone. It is often reset without rhyme or reason to this random default (I think NYC). I don't always notice and change the time one when it boots up because I have steam launch in big picture mode.
Also, why does it even need to ask for active hours by default? I am using the machine at full-throttle. That is a really easy metric for "maybe wait until later". It's already logging everything I do and sending it to Microsoft, it would be nice to see some usuabiltiy features come out of all that data
Inconsistently working is a commmon theme of my experiences with windows. I am routinely baffled that I paid $100 for this experience and wish that there was better Linux game support for AAA titles. I know I throw my money that way whenever possible.
> why does it even need to ask for active hours by default? I am using the machine at full-throttle.
Some people run things all day long. My brother sometimes keeps the video game 7 days to die running all day at home while he's at work. Not updating when activity is detected is a good way to have it never update, and a good way to allow a virus to trigger a condition that may prevent automatic patches to holes it likes to use.
> I have set active hours but for some reason my windows partition - and not my ubunutu partition, so it isn't a hardware issue - does not reliably remember my time zone.
That's odd. Is it actually changing your time zone, or is it just off by a few hours? If it's just off by a few hours, my bet would be that it's a difference in how linux and windows set the system clock (one may prefer to keep the clock in UTC time, the other in the set time zone). If it's the actual time zone that's changing... I dunno, maybe some location service helper and a poorly mapped IP address? I haven't heard of that, but it does sound annoying.
I'm not arguing that there aren't cases where postponing restarting until there is lower load doesn't miss out on some people, I'm arguing that this shows a less respect for the user and is a poor experience. It does not feel like my machine, contrary to great-great grandparent. No other system I own forces restarts, and they all seem much more secure.
Its definitely the time zone not persisting. I've navigated through seas of menus to change it to no avail.
I agree its a good feature to ship enabled by default. Grandma who leaves her computer on for years at a time needs to have her security updates up to date.
I wouldn't call myself an unexperienced user at all but even after months of trying to disable the auto updates in W10 through all sort of settings and tweaks I gave up on it. Whatever I did it never lasted for long. When I'm not in control of my own machine what's the point? I have switched to a Linux distro and haven't regretted it.
I have a 2015 MPB and used it for 1 year before switching it to Windows because I got fed up of the apple dev environment.
It doesn't just run windows fine, it runs Windows with amazing speed compared to macOS. Everything feels (and is) snappier. I'm still left with a very expensive and under-powered machine.
PS. Installing Little Snitch, one becomes immediately aware that macOS does talk to base....a lot!
Sorry but that's just blatant lying. Apple takes great care of optimizing its OS and apps for its hardware, to the point where it's possible to use Final Cut Pro on the anemic MacBook 12 somewhat comfortably(!)
Yes, apple does optimize. I'm not disputing that; neither starting a silly "apple vs" debate. I am no fan boy of either mac or PC - I just use whatever is best.
The point is, that "equivalent software" runs faster. I would wager that if Final Cut Pro was for Windows, and you run it on the very same MacBook12, it would run faster on Windows. Despite this, using Final Cut Pro an example is a bad one, because it was developed by Apple itself (and therefore assumed to be highly optimized to the OS) and it is not available for windows.
It is more useful to compare an equivalent 3rd party (neither made by apple or microsoft) application. I'm a developer, so I use a lot more software than just "apps" so maybe if you try to use a wider set of software, the difference in platforms will become apparent.
Admittingly, I don't have numbers. But I don't need numbers, because you can feel the difference as a user. Install it and see for yourself!
Microsoft takes great care for optimizing its OS and apps for any hardware, to the point where it's possible to run Windows 10 on 10 year old hardware somewhat comfortably. To the point where the Windows 10 Kernel and a lot of the Windows 10 Core (OneCore) runs on mobile and IoT hardware...
To me, MacOS just seems like the best desktop UI and UX out there. I'm talking about stuff like font rendering, gestures, multiple desktops, etc. All of these things on the Mac have clearly had a huge amount of thought put into them. And since these things mediate your entire interaction with the computer, it's a big factor for me.
Windows seems to be a combination of 90's era throwbacks and 2edgy4you Metro design. If they've managed to improve this stuff recently I would be interested in switching, since there's a huge tax on hardware specs with Apple computers.
How recent is recently? Windows 7 was the first windows version I didn't dread using for years, Windows 8 was a small refinement on that, and Windows 10 is a vast improvement on that.
Windows 10 feels like it just wants to get out of my way, which is really nice, since for me the gold standard is a customized FVWM config I refined over a decade to be minimalist and extremely usable for work.
If you haven't used Windows 10, it's probably worth at least a look (as long as you don't mind or have ways to mitigate the privacy concerns).
I'm reading all of your comments here (not just yours) and I'm wondering. Do you spend that much time in OS alone?
I use MacOS, Windows, and Linux each and every day interchangeably. What I do is I start my productivity application(s) and spend time in that. I see OS when I'm copying files or when I'm in shell doing shit. Even when in shell, with baboon on Windows it's more or less the same experience across.
Only thing I want in all of OS' that is only in MacOS is preview. That thing is damn awesome. Everything else is invisible to me.
> whereas Microsoft lets me to do whatever I want with my computers and my software.
Not in my experience. My Windows 10 automation/unscrew-up script alone is like 5 kloc. And I bet 70% of that script could be replaced if I had real control of the system, like dropping a .config file in some folder instead of having to find hidden settings with nonsensical names deep down the regedit hole. Another example, you have to use some stupid hacks to make sure there are no Flash DLLs in your pc. No matter what you do they always come back in some security update.
> And I bet 70% of that script could be replaced if I had real control of the system, like dropping a .config file in some folder instead of having to find hidden settings with nonsensical names deep down the regedit hole.
You should see my ansible playbooks for our Windows Server systems, I don't mind PowerShell per-se but it takes a lot more effort to get anything done compared to my CentOS systems where I can template a config file and be done with it.
I really hope our vendors start supporting .Net Core soon, the SDK for our ECM software is the only reason we're still stuck on the full framework and having to manage a bunch of Windows VM's for our integration software...
It's based on several scripts from Github. A lot of lines are just regex and lists (apps, services, tasks) of things to disable or remove.
I recommend you do your own script by choosing what you want from each type of script. I would release my script if I was sure it wouldn't break random people's computers, because IT WILL. I'm also running Windows 10 enterprise because I want as little telemetry and things shoved up my ass as possible.
Some Windows updates can change registry keys or disable certain policies. I monitor the commit log of other repos to know what I need to update, but they don't always cover everything. Feels like a lot of work but it's actually not.
Here's how I structured it:
- admin.ps1
--- admin-config.ps1 (policies, tweaks)
--- disable-services.ps1
--- remove-flash.ps1
--- ...
- user.ps1 calls
--- user-config.ps1
--- disable-gamedrv.ps1
--- disable-services.ps1
--- ...
Because if you're using a regular user account (like you should) you need to run 3 things:
- admin.ps1 as admin
- user.ps1 as admin
- user.ps1 as your regular user
I gave up on using runAs or any of the things recommended on stackoverflow, something always go wrong so it's easier to do it this way.
For a fresh install, I recommend that the first thing you do is update everything and let Windows install the 200 apps you don't want. Run the 3 things like I mentioned, reboot, run it again, reboot.
My installation is months old and it runs like new even after heavy usage, hardware changes, tons of apps and games installed/uninstalled (this kills Windows 7). Just be careful what you remove, don't ever install ccleaner or any shit. All you need is sysinternals tools.
I'm too lazy to proof-read/make this shorter, hope it helps somebody.
Even assuming that issue was overblown, I distinctly remember that Catbert-style perma-nag message appearing on each login asking me to upgrade. Microsoft doesn't even deem its users worthy of a simple "Don't bother me again" close window.
Let us conservatively say about 10% of the 300 million people who supposedly got the Windows 10 update didn't actually want it. That's about 30 million folks who would disagree with this notion that Microsoft "lets me do whatever I want with my computers and my software".
The best thing Microsoft and Dell have going for them in the laptop space... the 2016 MacBook Pro w/Touch Bar. It was a dud. The GPU issues were the final straw for me.
I thought that switching back to Windows would be a HUGE hassle. The Windows Subsystem for Linux took the pain out of it. That, and I no longer have to fight the we-don't-have-a-macOS-version of $APP issues.
If Apple doesn't care about their computers, why should their users? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
There is a difference between "design tradeoff" and "design flaw." E.g. I'd rather have an SSD-only machine with a bigger internal battery than use that space for a 2.5" drive bay. But I don't consider that a "flaw" in my T450s. But coil whine (XPS), crappy screens with backlight bleeding and PWM (Lenovo), not using Microsoft Precision touchpads (HP). Those are flaws. That's not a trade-off between different peoples' use cases, but just the manufacturer skimping on some part.
One person's tradeoff is another person's flaw and vice versa.
As someone who has a lot of trouble using any trackpad (including Apple's) that doesn't have physical buttons, should I view buttonless trackpads as a tradeoff or a flaw?
I don't care about the design tradeoffs made for esthetic reasons, I only care that I struggle with them and get stressed out by them. So to me, the lack of physical trackpad buttons on a laptop is a design flaw, even though it might be a completely sensible tradeoff for 99% of the population.
> One person's tradeoff is another person's flaw and vice versa.
If some people view a design decision positively, then its a trade-off, not a flaw. For example, I hate moving parts on my computing devices (they break). So I'm a big fan of the non-clicking force touchpad.
What I'm talking about is flaws. Nobody prefers a laptop with coil whine to one without. Nobody prefers a cheap-o IPS display with an uneven backlight or bleed. Nobody prefers Synaptics drivers to Microsoft Precision drivers. Those are flaws, not trade-offs.
>> Nobody prefers a laptop with coil whine to one without. Nobody prefers a cheap-o IPS display with an uneven backlight or bleed. Nobody prefers Synaptics drivers to Microsoft Precision drivers. Those are flaws, not trade-offs.
But like anything, you have to be sensitized to these things as a negative. Clearly, you've got plenty of things you're sensitized to.
Virtually none of my non-technical friends would even think to complain about uneven backlights, bleed or coil whine, simply because they haven't been sensitized to them.
Coil whine and a little backlight bleed have never been dealbreakers for me in choosing a laptop. All other things being equal, maybe they would be dealbreakers. With the wide variety of laptop options out there, the "all other things" never tends to be equal anyways.
You can make the argument that I have low standards, and maybe that's true. But I am not you and you are not me. Let's not assume that everyone is sensitized to the same things as you or has the same tolerances as you.
If you aren't CPU constrained, max out the RAM and swap in an SSD... you should be fine for a while.
I'm running a 2014 and so disappointed they soldered on the ram, and their SSD is a wierd format nobody else is using. I'm not planning on upgrading any time soon though.
I think the Apple/Mac pro market is really being abandoned in favor of the laptops.. but how much of their base can they piss off before it starts taking other segments with it?
I'm looking hard at the T570 (I've got a T450s docked at work, but 14" is too small for working on the go). It sucks that Lenovo's screens are such crap. Even /r/Thinkpad complains about Lenovo shipping cheap crappy screens.
I also use an HP ProBook G2 450. This is another awesome machine where the screen is subpar. On the Lenovo I an not bothered by it. But the probook unplugged is annoying.
The upper end of the Surface line seems decent hardware-wise, and the detachable keyboards give the option to trade thinness vs. keyboard. One should be able to put Linux on them, most likely.
That would depend on your criteria. For example my MSI laptop blows my mbps out of the water performance wise (I have 2 mbps btw 2014 and 2016- so no mac hating here), but it's about 4 times heavier :) but I don't have to haul it around too often.
If I had to haul a PC laptop around - for mbp - comparable form factor/weight I'd look at high end razer laptops. I'm also not a fan of glossy screens, razer has a matte screen option available (so do MSIs but again they are BIG).
Compared to the 13" rMBP, you get a smaller display and almost two hours less battery life (and people are up in arms about the 13" rMBP being a regression on the battery life front compared to the previous model). It's not a replacement for the rMBP, just a less good, but cheaper, alternative.
Not sure why you decided razer stealth @1.4K is closest to what Mac has to offer when they have a "regular" razer blade in the same price range as the mbp with the only upside to mbp being a better battery life (which is most likely due to a superior but hungrier video setup on the blade).
speaking of battery life - not sure that once you get into 6 hrs vs 8hrs type difference it's all that important.
I used to recommend the Razer Blade, but tons of horror stories on PCMR have veered me away. The only other laptop in the same class that I know of is the Gigabyte Aero.
I'm done with apple. The only MBP I have is from my work and I leave it there. My personal laptop is a chromebook pixel 2015, running debian. I absolutely love it, but I'm planning to upgrade to a new alienware 13. yes, it's a gamig laptop, but it has removable components (sdd, ram), high end graphics (gtx 1060) and an oled screen. all for less than $2000.
I'm researching new laptops, and the two laptops that keep bouncing between the #1 and #2 spots on my short list are the XPS15 9560 and the Alienware 13R3.
I think the Alienware 13 is an ugly, heavy brick (in fairness, you can get uglier), but it basically ticks off everything I need on paper.
My max acceptable weight for a laptop - irrespective of size - is around 5.5 lbs, so it barely makes that, but once you get past the esthetics, it's a fantastic machine. It's available with a quad core CPU with multiple options for GPUs (including the 1050Ti which kills the battery less than the 1060), a nice array of current and future ports, user replaceable wifi, RAM and SSD, and the option for an OLED screen. Oh, and it's also got physical touchpad buttons, which are something I've been missing for a long, long time.
Because my last two laptops have been quad core, I struggle with the idea of replacing my laptop with an ultrathin laptop that has an ultrabook processor that would be slower than what I currently have.
Every time I think the XPS15 is the one for me, I look at the Alienware 13 and change my mind.
The one thing I really hate about the Alienware 13R3 is that it's a "gaming" laptop and the matching gaming bling, but that's a rant for another day.
The XPS 15 is another option. Even with a significantly larger battery it doesn't seem to have better stamina than the MBP. It's apparently been plagued by QA problems, and offers a choice only between a 1080p and power-hungry 4K (can't get high-DPI and 10 hour battery life in the same package).
I suspect, looking at the sales numbers, that you're wrong. Apple is giving up on a certain group of users (who need fast GPUs). They gave on those users years ago by shipping crappy OpenGL drivers. But they've correctly perceived that common users don't want ports, or expandability. They want a fast machine with a great screen and all-day battery life, and they want to hit those metrics in the smallest package possible.