Assuming that recipients are also taxed on their world income there is little difference between someone not working and living somewhere else or or not doing it without the country. It might be something unfair but i cant fathom it being significant at scale.
The problem is the people coming in: how do you stop high levels of immigration from people that would not be as productive as finnish people and hence would quickly become a drain on the state. The greatest single enemy of open immigration is welfare.
Uneasy to you maybe. If the immigrant has it worse not coming to the land of free money and jobs (even if they're not getting the free money), they're still better off than not coming.
Separately, in a way we already have that uneven net for the same work. If you work two jobs you get paid less (net) than one person doing either of your jobs (for that job, not total). That's what's what a progressive tax does.
> Uneasy to you maybe. If the immigrant has it worse not coming to the land of free money and jobs (even if they're not getting the free money), they're still better off than not coming.
Its a market distortion that could create all kinds of problems.
You could argue that's discrimination( there are equal pay and equal wages laws around employment).
You would not be allowing immigrants from doing a wide range of jobs that are desirable (and hence pay less) and 'condemn' them to do the worse jobs that pay more. So for example, immigrants will be less represented in arts, journalism, administrative work. Low paying jobs in general will not be living wages without UBI. Think that minimum wage is likely to drop considerable if you have UBI.
It undoubtedly creates an "US vs them" gap measurable in money.
> Separately, in a way we already have that uneven net for the same work. If you work two jobs you get paid less (net) than one person doing either of your jobs (for that job, not total). That's what's what a progressive tax does.
UBI is very likely not going to apply to most workers, maybe minimum wage and down. You dont really need much of a minimum wage if you have an UBI, which means many pleasent low skill jobs would pay very little (clerical work for example). So immigrants would be barred from such jobs without UBI.
Also its true that taxes make 2 people get different net income but that comes from their wealth, not their nationality. Someone with a house and a mortgage might get more income than an immigrant that has nothing. That makes it a regressive tax (the immigrant pays taxes that goes to the richer guy).
> Also its true that taxes make 2 people get different net income but that comes from their wealth, not their nationality.
Most (all?) western countries tax income, not wealth[1]. Wealth has no impact on income taxes. If I have $1M in the bank go work for minimum wage and earn $10K for the year, I'll get taxed the same as someone with $0 in the bank earning the same $10K. The contrast I was making was someone with two jobs that make $10K each. With a progressive tax structure, each they are making less net at each job than a person working for $10K at either job. That's because the second $10K would be taxed more than the first (okay maybe not at $10K but it's true at $25K to $50K or $50K to $100K...).
> Someone with a house and a mortgage might get more income than an immigrant that has nothing.
Again that makes no sense. A house and a mortgage are expenses. The only impact on your taxes would be deducting the mortgage interest or real estate taxes. They're not increasing income, they're lowering taxable income.
> That makes it a regressive tax (the immigrant pays taxes that goes to the richer guy).
That makes no sense. There's nothing immigrant specific about that. Unless you think all immigrants are renters. Yes interest and real estate tax deductions (and really deductions in general) are regressive in that higher income people who are already paying higher taxes benefit more, but there's nothing unfair about it from a born national v.s. immigrant basis.
Last I checked, immigrants are allowed to buy houses too.
[1]: The one exception to that is taxing real estate but on the whole cash, investments, or even piles of gold are not taxed.
I'm curious in what universe clerical work is considered pleasant?
In a world with UBI, I'd be very tempted to pack it in and go do some rewarding, enjoyable manual labor, like farming or forestry or carpentry or improving hiking trails.
In comparison to janitorial, customer service, retail sales, garbage disposal, truck driving, etc etc.
There are waves of people that would quit their job for a cozy clerical/administrative work that was cost-effective for their suffering. HOw much I dont know.
The problem is the people coming in: how do you stop high levels of immigration from people that would not be as productive as finnish people and hence would quickly become a drain on the state. The greatest single enemy of open immigration is welfare.